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They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

nytimes.com

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Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#141

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

weinzierl wrote: post #110
pfdietz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenon is so expensive it's reasonable to think about recovering it from spent nuclear reactor fuel (it's a major fission product with no long lived isotopes, although you have to very rigorously separate it from krypton, which does have some.) Xenon isn't inert; it can form chemical compounds like xenon difluoride. In the body it's probably dissolving into cell membranes or other fatty components.

What do you mean by "no long-lived isotopes"? That fission only produces short lived Xenon isotopes? Then, what use would it be to harvest it from fuel? For applications like in the article you want very long-lived or ideally stable Xe isotopes, which do exist.

The short-lived stuff decays away, leaving the safe stuff. When the isotopes decay away, they become other elements that are easily chemically separated. Or so I'd guess.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#142

Post by germinalphrase »

patentatt wrote: post #122
severusdd wrote: post #91

Xenon isn’t a new magic. Russian athletes were rumored to use it in the 2014 Sochi Olympic, and WADA banned it shortly thereafter: https://www.aip.org/inside-science/catching-some-xes-has-str... It spikes HIF-1α → EPO for a day or two, but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump, let alone safety at 8 km. Feels less like innovation and more like mountaineering’s own carbon-plate shoes, except the fai…

What's the issue with carbon-plated shoes?

They return energy (like a spring) providing mechanical assistance to the runner.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#143

Post by goric »

IMO this climb doesn't really do much to prove of xenon's effectiveness (altitude researcher Dr. Peter Hackett says as much [0]).

The team used supplemental oxygen on the climb, with the starting altitude and flow rate not being reported [1]. This is speculative, but if they were using more oxygen than typical and starting at a lower altitude, that's a massive advantage.

Further, Andrew Ushakov traveled from NYC to the summit in just under 4 days this year without the use of xenon (but also with supplemental oxygen with unknown starting altitude and flow rate). He used a hypoxic tent to prepare as well, and depending on the accuracy of the reporting may have even spent less time doing that than the xenon team did [1].

[0] https://www.npr.org/2025/05/18/nx-s1-5398553/a-new-company-i...

[1] https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2025/05/21/everest-2025-fas...

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#144

Post by devilbunny »

normie3000 wrote: post #41
Havoc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah was about to say that must have been really good baseline fitness. I know people that made it to Kilimanjaro as pretty average middle class urbanites with no substantial climbing background, but that's probably at the edge of what's possible.

> I know people that made it to Kilimanjaro ... with no substantial climbing background Kilimanjaro is an arduous hike. No technical knowledge or equipment is required. The main challenge on the mountain is altitude, which is countered by time spent acclimatising.

Yeah, I knew some middle-aged marathoners who freely confessed that Kilimanjaro kicked their butts. As you say, it's not a technically challenging climb; it's just a long, long hike uphill in steadily thinning air.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#145

Post by cratermoon »

patentatt wrote: post #122
severusdd wrote: post #91

Xenon isn’t a new magic. Russian athletes were rumored to use it in the 2014 Sochi Olympic, and WADA banned it shortly thereafter: https://www.aip.org/inside-science/catching-some-xes-has-str... It spikes HIF-1α → EPO for a day or two, but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump, let alone safety at 8 km. Feels less like innovation and more like mountaineering’s own carbon-plate shoes, except the fai…

What's the issue with carbon-plated shoes?

Elite runners can knock about 2 minutes off their marathon time. Studies show about a 2% improvement in times, the downside is increased injury.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#146

Post by rtkwe »

Aurornis wrote: post #126
severusdd wrote: post #91

Xenon isn’t a new magic. Russian athletes were rumored to use it in the 2014 Sochi Olympic, and WADA banned it shortly thereafter: https://www.aip.org/inside-science/catching-some-xes-has-str... It spikes HIF-1α → EPO for a day or two, but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump, let alone safety at 8 km. Feels less like innovation and more like mountaineering’s own carbon-plate shoes, except the fai…

> but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump I wish all of these news articles would discuss the actual studies instead of lazily parroting the claims of the one guy who is trying to sell expensive Xenon-assisted Everest hikes. These articles are always PR pieces for Lukas Furtenbach’s expensive Everest tours. Every single time I see the words “Xenon” and “Everest” in a headline, his name is in the…

> I wish all of these news articles would discuss the actual studies

They do, if you read them.

> While some doctors have used the gas in the past to “precondition” patients to low oxygen levels — for example, before major heart surgery — the practice hasn’t really caught on because “it hasn’t been as protective as one would hope,” he said.

> Mike Shattock, a professor of cellular cardiology at King’s College London, said “xenon probably does very little and there is virtually no reputable scientific evidence that it makes any difference.”

> Some research has shown that xenon can quickly acclimatize people to high altitudes, even as some experts say the benefits, if any, are negligible and the side effects of its use remain unclear.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#147

Post by throw0101b »

ty6853 wrote: post #119
wat10000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most business is about providing value by delivering goods or services that people want and are willing to pay for. Visit your local shops, how many of them are convincing people to buy proverbial tulips and leaving their customers holding the bag? Look at the most valuable companies in the world; they all do or make stuff people happily pay for because they actually find value in it. Certainly there are people who s…

But there is a real magic that happens in the process there. When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off. The magic of the businessman is to connive his way into getting the largest slice of the 'better off'. He generally can't legally make a deal without generating value, but if he can capture it to the point the customer is only one iota better o…

> When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off.

That is not how the current US administration seems to see (foreign) trade. :)

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#148

Post by elzbardico »

donatj wrote: post #64

Why does mountaineering need a future ? Mountaineering should just be done. Stop. The mountains have been scaled. All of them. We've been there, website seen what's to be seen. It's done, it's over. Just leave these grandiose wonders alone rather than destroying the natural beauty in the name of an ego boost.

Plenty of unconquered peaks and routes across the world.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#149

Post by cratermoon »

llm_nerd wrote: post #118
cheeze wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO this is a reductionist take that is often peddled around Reddit. "Anybody can climb Everest, it's not that difficult", etc. Personally? I think it's a pretty cool achievement and is _the_ mountain to climb for a reason. I'm with the other commenter here. Chase your passions.

It's similar to how many people clutch their pearls about abandoned gear on Everest. Many of the neighbouring countries -- including Nepal, India, Tibet, Bangladesh -- are effectively open-air garbage dumps, where rivers and fields and cities are just awash with discards and garbage. In environmentally critical places where it massively impedes with the life of millions. In a relative sense I just do not care about s…

For the record, the two base camps on either side of Everest are at about 17,000 feet. 15,000 feet won't even get you started.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#150

Post by ty6853 »

throw0101b wrote: post #147
ty6853 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is a real magic that happens in the process there. When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off. The magic of the businessman is to connive his way into getting the largest slice of the 'better off'. He generally can't legally make a deal without generating value, but if he can capture it to the point the customer is only one iota better o…

> When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off. That is not how the current US administration seems to see (foreign) trade. :)

Unless you take the skeptical view that the US administration does not represent the people but rather merely the administration and its ilk, who stand to profit immensely if they are in cahoots with corrupt import/export smugglers or are trading for gains in some of the few winners, or even just shorting the losers.
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