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Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

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Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#141
post #138
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can’t be done. If someone is on a home network whose router has been compromised and is part of a ddos attack, there’s no way their innocent HTTP traffic is getting through. Ditto if their machine has been compromised. To me, this sounds like giving up way too easily on engineering problems. One distinction to start with: Let's say grandma's router isn't part of a DDoS attack. Even if she might be trying to talk…

The people behind Cloudflare spend all day, every day trying to solve these kinds of problems. They're just not as simple as you make it sound.

The people behind Cloudflare engineer this issue for profit, which is a very different motive than to "solve" the problem.

The people most interested in doing away with the problem altogether are not Cloudflare, but its customers.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#142
post #86

I was unaware of this controversy so in brief: 1. La Liga (Spanish Football) finds pirates streaming their games objectionable 2. They notice that many of these streamers use Cloudflare for something, presumably CDN and load balancing. 3. They appear in court in Spain and get an ex-parte TRO blocking all Cloudflare IPs. (Ex parte TRO: restraining order granted without Cloudflare being summoned to court) 4. Based on t…

There is a new factor in the equation: Rising anti-american sentiments. This ties in with point 5 especially. Forcing Spanish websites off Cloudflare could seem like an additional benefit.

I live in Spain and there is no rising anti-American anything. The average person doesn't care beyond the Trump hate that is spewed by the mass media, but the mass media spews hate about many things, so much that the average person can't really invest much energy into hating every little thing.

I know that people here would love to live in an alternate reality where everybody in the EU is fuming at the US having a right-wing government but that's not here at least yet. The US has done so many terrible things throughout history; they will survive this too.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#143

He's been complaining a lot about Portugal on Twitter too. https://x.com/eastdakota

I don't see anything about Portugal there, just hundreds of tweets sorted randomly.

X now shows logged out visitors a "greatest hits" timeline instead of a users actual timeline. You can use a proxy like xcancel to get around that without an account.

https://xcancel.com/eastdakota

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#144
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comic is evergreen https://i.redd.it/d3423w2g5ur21.jpg (source: https://old.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/bcdlbf/hello_old_fr... )

Enshittification is when there's multiple choices? Isn't it, quite literally, the opposite?

You don't have multiple choices.

The appeal of Peak Netflix was that it had everything in one place with reasonably working discovery mechanisms. You could pay $10 or so per month and be satisfied. The current streaming era is "if you want to see all your favourite shows, it will cost $60 per month and you'll have to bounce around among 12 apps to find what you want."

If we had a mandatory-licensing regime, I'd expect multiple choices would work great. Services couldn't survive on "Only we have The Office/Game of Thrones/Bluey" alone and would have to differentiate based on other factors like "best discovery tools" or "built to better suit your specific devices"

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#145
post #138
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can’t be done. If someone is on a home network whose router has been compromised and is part of a ddos attack, there’s no way their innocent HTTP traffic is getting through. Ditto if their machine has been compromised. To me, this sounds like giving up way too easily on engineering problems. One distinction to start with: Let's say grandma's router isn't part of a DDoS attack. Even if she might be trying to talk…

The people behind Cloudflare spend all day, every day trying to solve these kinds of problems. They're just not as simple as you make it sound.

> They're just not as simple as you make it sound.

I didn't say it was simple. I said I thought it was more achievable than "it can't be done."

I suspect one of the barriers to it being done is that it's not a top requirement like I assert it should be, for basic resources of society.

When led with that requirement, I have faith that some smart engineers and product management can figure it out.

With apologies to JFK, "We do these things, not because they are easy, but because--" they need doing. Even if they are hard.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#146
This goes to Spain government (Nazi-like behavior has long tradition there) and Spain citizens letting laws, which allows this, to pass. Because same law was or will be used to block opposition, etc.

Of course, that similar organizations (paid by huge copyright companies) tried the same in my country. And luckily our government listens to local experts (NIC.cz and others) and not to mention, pirating has big tradition here. So they failed to pass this ridiculous law. (blocking IP addresses)

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#147
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Same thing this time around, Germany is oiling the war machine to march through Poland and fight Russia again, as we comment.

Am I missing a joke here? Putin is quite literally involved in a war of conquest he started in the European continent. America is, as usual, not coming to help anytime soon (America may eventually, but right now the government looks more likely to cheer Putin on than help Europe prevent this).

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preregister domain names, distribute then via chat apps like signal or whatsapp or telegram.

Whatsapp has mechanisms to prevent this kind of thing by blocking the messages from being sent, but I guess I'm confused about how this works financially. Sports streaming (especially something like La Liga) is the textbook example of a mass market product. The vast majority of the audience isn't technically sophisticated, and live streaming infrastructure is expensive. Pirate sites need a reasonably large audience t…

> Is that really happening at any meaningful scale?

Anecdotally: oh yes. I don’t know anybody who pays, although that may say more about the populations I work with and hang out with.

I hear there’s plenty of headroom for the direct economics to work, if you’re reselling for less than the ~EUR100/month range the commercial providers charge [1]. Gross median income in Spain is on the order of EUR27000 annually, for reference [2]—so I’m not sure how many of the pirate viewers would be able to afford the legit product if the pirate channels dried up.

I also hear [0] there’s a robust side trade in exploiting pirate viewers’ machines though malware-style techniques while they’re there and feeling enticed to click yes to things…

[0] https://www.webroot.com/blog/2021/05/12/we-explored-the-dang...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/LaLiga/comments/1fksf3i/how_much_do...

[2] https://www.ine.es/dyngs/INEbase/en/operacion.htm?c=Estadist...

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#149
post #5

I live in Spain, while I find the whole "life-threatening" narrative a tad overblown: I agree these obnoxious blocks are unacceptable. Incredible how much power LaLiga is capable of wielding.

Who let laws, which allows IP blocking, to pass?

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#150
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enshittification is when there's multiple choices? Isn't it, quite literally, the opposite?

You don't have multiple choices. The appeal of Peak Netflix was that it had everything in one place with reasonably working discovery mechanisms. You could pay $10 or so per month and be satisfied. The current streaming era is "if you want to see all your favourite shows, it will cost $60 per month and you'll have to bounce around among 12 apps to find what you want." If we had a mandatory-licensing regime, I'd expec…

> You don't have multiple choices.

The comic depicts "Netflix" -> "Netflix Amazon Apple Disney+ Hulu YouTube", and you later implicitly say there are multiple choices, but, you don't think it works well. "If we had a mandatory-licensing regime, I'd expect multiple choices would work great."

> Services couldn't survive on "Only we have The Office/Game of Thrones/Bluey" alone and would have to differentiate based on other factors like "best discovery tools" or "built to better suit your specific devices"

I'm not sure how either of those are differentiators for people selling content, rather than people coding apps.

Let's avoid that simple argument.

Let us instead assume mandatory licensing exists, which I presume means that as soon as content is released, it is a right to be able to license it, i.e. pay the content creator to have it on your service.

I have a hard time understanding how that would lead to all content being on all services - surely, this adds up to some finite sum, but is that finite sum enough to mean its trivial to license everything, so there's no differentiator anymore?

And that's before we bring in that, presumably, we have some shared understanding that it's more expensive to license, say, Bluey Game of Thrones Edition, than, idk, hmmm...Karate Kid.

Let's set all those little things aside.

A screen is a piece of glass with pixels behind. A video takes up the pixels.

Is there room to "build to better suit your specific devices"?

Can we avoid an example that ends up creating exclusive content in the process?

Let's set that aside: what are discovery tools?

Are they differentiable? Or does it boil down to "a way of presenting N choices I might like"?

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