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AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

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Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#141

Post by [deleted] »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #54
kachapopopow wrote: post #40

Some of these are very obviously trained on webtoons and manga, probably pixiv as well. This is very clear due to seeing CG buildings and other misc artifacts. So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Art is something that cannot be generated like synthetic text so it will have to be nearly forever powered by human artists or else you will continue to end up with artifacting. So it makes me wonder if art…

I think many artists will see that if they publish anything original then AI companies will immediately use it as training data without regards to copyright. The result will be less original art. They will simply stop creating it or publishing it. IMO music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. AI will do the same for…

[deleted]

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#142

Post by falsaberN1 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #120
falsaberN1 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? How can AI cripple an artist? Even if the AI can do stuff better than I can in less time, it doesn't affect my art at all. It's the same thing as human artists better than them existing. Then again, I've seen people who get jealous to a raging degree because artist X can do better than them, so... Every artist worth anything strives to be better at their craft on the daily, if that artist gets disco…

Nice idealistic view. It doesn't pay the bills. Artists quit doing art when they have to flip burgers instead. And AI is absolutely unconditionally a competitor in that arena.

Then they were never real artists. I spend 14 hours a day at the office in a rather stressful job and still make time to draw, and I'm everything but a superhuman.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#143

Post by rererereferred »

Tade0 wrote: post #67

I would like to see how the fight scenes in The Beginning After the End could improve from being passed through this tool. In all seriousness I wonder where is this all headed? Are people long term going to be more forgiving of visual artifacts if it will mean that their favourite franchise gets another season? Or will generated imagery be shunned just like the not-so-subtle use of 3D models?

    Toei Animation is looking to utilize AI in areas such as
    storyboarding, coloring, and “color specification,” as
    well as in-between animation and backgrounds.

    The specific use cases mentioned include:
    • Storyboarding: Leveraging AI to “generate simple
      layouts and shooting of the storyboards.”
    • Colors: Employing AI to “specify colors and
      automatically correct colors.”
    • In-betweens: Utilizing AI to “automatically correct
      line drawings and generate in-betweens.”
    • Backgrounds: Using AI to “generate backgrounds from
      a photo.”
Source: https://www.japannihon.com/toei-animation-discusses-ai-use-i...

I think this is fine. The director will still make sure there's no visual artifacts. On the other hand indies will be able to create their own works, maybe with some warts, but better than nothing.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#144

Post by falsaberN1 »

pca006132 wrote: post #134
falsaberN1 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm an artist with 30+ years of experience. Downgraded to AI training? Nonsense. You forget artists do more than just draw for money, we also draw for FUN, and that little detail escapes every single AI-related discussion I've been reading for the last 3 years.

Not an artist myself. I think some artists may become more like head chefs in some Chinese restaurant, who is more like QA and give direction to cooks to improve their work. I think it is hard to notice the details and give concrete feedback if you are not working on it professionally for a long time.

This is probably true. I've noticed some people have better critical eye with the AI output than others. People with artistic skill can make stuff of much higher quality, it seems. I guess they get immediately bored of the default settings which compose most of the low-quality slop being pushed around.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#145

Post by esafak »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #36
mattigames wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not like chatgtp and sora which as all we all known are fully trained in public licensed content free of copyright.

Exactly, that's why they aren't able to replicate the Studio Ghibli style.

They are, and that's what's sad about it. Studio Ghibli is not getting paid, and would never have consented to this even if they were offered.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#146

Post by idiotsecant »

sshine wrote: post #44
kachapopopow wrote: post #40

Some of these are very obviously trained on webtoons and manga, probably pixiv as well. This is very clear due to seeing CG buildings and other misc artifacts. So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Art is something that cannot be generated like synthetic text so it will have to be nearly forever powered by human artists or else you will continue to end up with artifacting. So it makes me wonder if art…

It’s great that you have sympathy for illustrators, but I don’t see a big difference if the training data is a novel, a picture, a song, a piece of code, or even a piece of legal text. As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. In the…

My prediction:

It will be like furniture.

A long time ago, every piece of furniture was handmade. It might have been good furniture, or crude, poorly constructed furniture, but it was all quite expensive, in terms of hours per piece. Now, furniture is almost completely mass produced, and can be purchased in a variety of styles and qualities relatively cheaply. Any customization or uniqueness puts it right back into the hand-made category. And that arrangement works for almost everyone.

Media will be like that. There will be a vast quantity of personalized media of decent quality. It will be produced almost entirely automatically based on what the algorithm knows about you and your preferences.

There will be a niche industry of 'hand made' media with real acting and writing from human brains, but it will be expensive, a mark of conspicuous consumption and class differentiation.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#147

Post by Lerc »

rchaud wrote: post #129
falsaberN1 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm an artist with 30+ years of experience. Downgraded to AI training? Nonsense. You forget artists do more than just draw for money, we also draw for FUN, and that little detail escapes every single AI-related discussion I've been reading for the last 3 years.

The issue is whether the artists creating things for love of the game will be crowded out even further by studios churning out slop (or in HN terms, Minimal Viable Products) for cash. There are probably 15 disposable reality TV shows created for every scripted sitcom or drama that needs good writers, set designers and directors.

The fact that those TV shows exist indicates the root of the problem has nothing to do with AI.

Those show are cheap because they employ fewer people. They still need to employ some people though. To me the greater tradgedy is that they make a product where those people who make it do not care about it. People are working to make things they don't like because they need income to survive.

The problem is not that AI is taking jobs, it is that it is taking incomes. If we really are heading to a world where most jobs can be done by AI (I have my doubts about most, but I'll accept many), we need a strategy to preserve incomes. We already desperately need a system to prevent massive wealth inequality.

We need to have a discussion about the future we want to have, but we are just attacking the tools used by people making a future we don't want. We should be looking at the hands that hold the tools.

Discussions like this often lead to talking about universal basic income. I think that is a mistake. We need a broader strategy than that. The income needs to be far better than 'basic'. Education needs to change to developing the individual instead of worker units.

Imagine a world where the only TV shows were made were the ones who could attract people who care about the program enough that they would offer their time to work on it.

That too would generate a lot of poor quality content, because not everyone is good at the things they like to do. It would be heartless to call it slop though. More importantly those people who are afforded the lifestyle that enables them to produce low quality things are doing precisely the work they need to be doing to become people who produce high quality things.

Some of those hands learning to make high quality things may be holding the tools of AI. People making things because they want to make will produce some incredible things with or without AI. A lot of astounding creations we haven't even seen or perhaps even imagined will be produced by people creatively using new tools.

(This is what I get for checking HN when I let the dog out to toilet in the middle of night)

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#148

Post by falsaberN1 »

numpad0 wrote: post #128
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice idealistic view. It doesn't pay the bills. Artists quit doing art when they have to flip burgers instead. And AI is absolutely unconditionally a competitor in that arena.

Online artists are more likely to be consultants and marketing experts. They "flip burgers", or rather make PowerPoints and lays out magazine articles, 12 hours a day for 8 days a week anyway. So AI only "financially" hurts them in the sense that it hurts their dopamine income.

This is more like it. Every dedicated artist I know does something else to pay the bills, from actual burger flippers to sysadmins like me. They will make time to draw things because they simply like doing it.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#149

Post by startupsfail »

wongarsu wrote: post #112
GoblinSlayer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Art created by humans is not entirely original. The catch here is that a human can use single sample as input, but AI needs a torrent of training data. Also when AI generates permutations of samples, does their statistic match training data?

A skilled artist can imitate a single art style or draw a specific object from a single reference. But becoming a skilled artist takes years of training. As a society we like to pretend some humans are randomly gifted with the ability to draw, but in reality it's 5% talent and 95% spending countless hours practising the craft. And if you count the years worth of visual data the average human has experienced by the ti…

In case of an ML model either a very good description or that single reference could be added to the context.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#150

Post by [deleted] »

taneq wrote: post #102
GoblinSlayer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for dry text. Translation of art is art too and there's no such thing as higher quality art.

I’m intrigued by this statement. It seems obvious to me that some artworks are ‘higher quality’ than others. You wouldn’t, I’d presume, consider the Sistine Chapel or the Mona Lisa to be the same quality as a dickbutt scribbled on a napkin?

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