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Getting things “done” in large tech companies

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Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#141

Post by whstl »

dbalatero wrote: post #82
yawgmoth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there. I would never do this, and if you would do this I wouldn't want to work with you. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I sleep alright.

It's not like the parent would have accomplished nothing in the 10 years. I think they are just talking about framing it in language palatable to the interviewer across the table.

Even in the most dysfunctional organizations you can't spend 10 years doing nothing.

GP was achieving what their bosses asked of them. It's just that it didn't align with their own professional goals of improving the product they work on.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#142

Post by aprdm »

whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

This really depends on the company. There are many companies where eng has way more weight than PM. And that eng aren't so divorced from customers. Even big tech.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#143

Post by malthaus »

whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

communication is probably the most important skillset in any organisation and 9 months of interim work is not sufficient enough for you to realize it.

so this reads like any other salty engineer who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the org, business people are useless and if only he would yield decision power, all issues would be solved immediately.

but guess what, it's usually not true and that mindset is usually not good to collaborate with either.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#144

Post by conrs »

whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

I've had a very hard time with the Product Manager discipline. From the books and podcasts like Lenny's, it all makes perfect sense, but it seems like in practice it is as you described - they've inserted themselves in between and often don't represent either side well. It's lead me to develop product management skills myself, which are honestly incredibly useful in avoiding wasted effort. But it does make me wonder whether the dichotomy is worth it or if product management should be part of a senior engineer's skillset.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#145

Post by yks »

conrs wrote: post #144
whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

I've had a very hard time with the Product Manager discipline. From the books and podcasts like Lenny's, it all makes perfect sense, but it seems like in practice it is as you described - they've inserted themselves in between and often don't represent either side well. It's lead me to develop product management skills myself, which are honestly incredibly useful in avoiding wasted effort. But it does make me wonder…

any concise introduction into those skills you could recommend?

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#146

Post by Velorivox »

> The wealth of the mega corps does allow most goals to be accomplished, at great expense, with Just A Job workers, but people that have experienced being embedded with Really Care workers are going to be appalled at the relative effectiveness. —- John Carmack

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26170052

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#147

Post by bluecheese452 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #28
pydry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great if you can ride that into retirement but if you get laid off and you start having to justify your existence again in the job market I dont think "I took home $300k for doing nothing and then got laid off" is a great sell.

But that's kinda the beauty of it. If you get laid off from one of these places the next place doesn't know that you took 300k home to do jack, all they know is you worked for a super prestigious company for 10 years and you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there.

If you took home 300k for 10 years then you don’t have to worry about getting a job.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#149

Post by whstl »

conrs wrote: post #144
whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

I've had a very hard time with the Product Manager discipline. From the books and podcasts like Lenny's, it all makes perfect sense, but it seems like in practice it is as you described - they've inserted themselves in between and often don't represent either side well. It's lead me to develop product management skills myself, which are honestly incredibly useful in avoiding wasted effort. But it does make me wonder…

That makes me think.

I never really worked with a PM that was good at preventing wasted effort. Or even mediocre at it. Most assumptions I saw them making were incorrect, unless it was a VERY SIMPLE product.

To me this is something that engineering should be doing, just like splitting tasks and double-checking designs.

Of course not every engineer can do it, but some of us have been doing it, negotiating deadlines and deliverables our whole careers. So I don't really understand why our industry insists on having us throw away those abilities.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#150

Post by parliament32 »

theK wrote: post #21
whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

So, fire the Product Managers?

I think liability is more important. In my anecdotal experience, PMs are eager to take credit for successes while passing blame for failures. If a PM "owns" a product and calls the shots, it should be crystal clear to leadership that they're accountable for outcomes.
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