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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

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Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#141

Post by cynicalkane »

est wrote: post #14

been using Duolingo in the 10s and last year, I gave up because the course seems very repetitive. Even if I got the answer right 10 out of 10 times, the same question kept coming. It almost looks like the app is trying very hard to make me stay as long as possible, instead of study as effecient as possible. So for a good alternative app, is there a dynamic course pace I can adapt to?

You can skip ahead full units by passing a test, and I recommend always doing it if you can.

I do 1-2 Duolingo lessons daily, supplemented with 15-30 minutes of real Japanese study. If I can't skip ahead after completing the first "star", I feel disappointed. I'm often able to skip two or three units in a row.

Though this is partly because I'm only using Duolingo as an easy, gamified supplement to serious study.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#142

Post by bluGill »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #126
Tor3 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with a lot of what you write. I maintain that Duolingo is the wrong approach to actually learn a language (even though there are differences between the various languages covered by Duolingo). However, I did somewhat successfully use Duolingo to refresh some intermediate-level Italian grammar (not grammar training, but I could observe various grammatically different sentences), after having been away from…

You've twice written about what is the wrong way to learn a new language -- what's your right way? Why did you use Duo' instead of 'the right way'? Perhaps that explains why one might create a OSS version of Duo.

Comprehesible input. find something basic you can understand and immerse your self in it. Often this is childrens books/shows or similar level designed for adults.

at the start you use a translation dictionary to look up ever word which is boring - which is why approaches like duolingo where they give you around 2000 common words to memorize quickly are useful. However the goal is to learn just enough of that list that you can find something you understand to start the real learning on.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#143

Post by thedumbname »

unbleaveable wrote: post #133

Having trouble understanding why you thought it was acceptable to steal their business name, and concept, and software application design. Would you call a competing word processor "Libre Word"? Is it acceptable to just copy their everything if you just add the word libre?

A lot of FOSS projects were sued for these things, see GAIM/Pidgin, etc. Newcomers should understand that is a copyright violation.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#144

Post by watwut »

yorwba wrote: post #116
watwut wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absurd suggestion when OPs complaint was about translation. A person new to language doing Anki always end up only translating words in always the same sentences. That is actually much less of a problem in Duolingo where those sentences warry and that has you do variety of exercises.

You can do Anki without translation. My preferred approach is to have "type answer" cards where the question side just plays a recording and then you type in what you heard. I do add a translation on the answer side to let me check whether I understood the sentence correctly, but the focus is on listening and writing in the target language, not translation. Of course the number of cards is finite, but so are Duolingo…

You can, but this is not what someone who just came to it all for the first time and looks for "app I can download and use" will do.

They will download a dect with single words translations rsther then spend a lot of times doing own deck with special features. That is done by people who primarily learn in another way and use anki as memory refresher.

Anki is great memory refreser, but that is not what was asked here.

To your last paragraph, you do set number of cards per day. Even if you have many different sentences on many different cards, they will graduate independently from each other. So, you will still see the exact same sentence a lot rather then getting different sentence each time you see the card.

More important is that practically Duolingo did not caused me to have any particular sentence or translation super strongly burned into my head. Maybe it is variety, maybe something else, but practical result was just not that.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#145

Post by terinjokes »

pbmonster wrote: post #107
huimang wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did do those kinds of things. For example, speaking with a partner or having to give a 5 minute talk to the teacher on something. The problem is that it's grossly inefficient time-wise, and the content of "conversations" was always very, very simple. "Hi my name is _, I like the color _, My hometown is in _, how are you today?" Is not a real conversation. It's boring and most students learn the vocab for the upcom…

> "Hi my name is _, I like the color _, My hometown is in _, how are you today?" Is not a real conversation. That's... "first two weeks"-level of language lessons, right? No reason not to progress to children's stories and newspaper articles in time. We basically never did speaking with a partner, I think our teachers realized that most students will learn little from that. It was always student teacher interactions,…

In my four years of US high school Spanish in South Florida, I don't recall a single time we read complete stories or newspaper articles. It was entirely grammar and vocabulary in isolation. When there was speaking exercises the teachers did not make an effort to have the native speakers speak with the non-native speakers.

The only thing close to what I'd now call "Compelling Comprehensive Input" that I recall is a single week where we watched a Friends-style miniseries about an English speaker moving to Spain.

You would not be surprised ik spreek geen spaans.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#146

Post by bluGill »

gary17the wrote: post #22
Tor3 wrote: post #4

There wasn't much to read there, but why aspire to be an alternative to Duolingo of all things? Duolingo focuses on learning by translation, basically. It's even in the name: "Duolingo". It's an utterly broken approach to learning languages, except for the very initial phase where you're getting just enough to move on to modern methods (i.e. avoid translation like the plague, to start with). Which is exactly why a co…

> [learning by translation] [is] an utterly broken approach to learning languages I speak one foreign language fluently, which I learned in a traditional classroom environment with a teacher, and recently started to learn another language with Duolingo. I actually find their "learning by translation" method possibly easier (and definitely less boring) than the traditional "keep learning all the different grammar comb…

Research has figured out that grammar is the wrong thing to focus on in a classroom. There are better ways to teach in a classroom that work. However many schools are not following the latest research so you need to find a good one.

grammar is good in the classroom - but not until every lesson gets you thinking so that is why I do X. If you are not used to the grammar don't learn it. So don't start until you have had around 50 hours in the classroom.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#147

Post by vitro »

internet_points wrote: post #35
gary17the wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [learning by translation] [is] an utterly broken approach to learning languages I speak one foreign language fluently, which I learned in a traditional classroom environment with a teacher, and recently started to learn another language with Duolingo. I actually find their "learning by translation" method possibly easier (and definitely less boring) than the traditional "keep learning all the different grammar comb…

> traditional "keep learning all the different grammar combinations first" approach That's not better than Duolingo, no. Duolingo is OK initially (especially if you need to learn a new alphabet), but then quickly move on to * https://www.languagetransfer.org/ (will give you a good understanding of the principles of the language but without feeling like a grammar book) * https://www.pimsleur.com/ or similar audio cour…

Adding one more:

* https://www.latudio.com/ - listening first approach, pause and show sentence if you don't understand, practice words you didn't get later, 4 types of exercises, scripted conversations being one of them

And a possibility of a one-time purchase.

Disclaimer: I'm a co-founder

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#148

Post by InsideOutSanta »

gary17the wrote: post #22
Tor3 wrote: post #4

There wasn't much to read there, but why aspire to be an alternative to Duolingo of all things? Duolingo focuses on learning by translation, basically. It's even in the name: "Duolingo". It's an utterly broken approach to learning languages, except for the very initial phase where you're getting just enough to move on to modern methods (i.e. avoid translation like the plague, to start with). Which is exactly why a co…

> [learning by translation] [is] an utterly broken approach to learning languages I speak one foreign language fluently, which I learned in a traditional classroom environment with a teacher, and recently started to learn another language with Duolingo. I actually find their "learning by translation" method possibly easier (and definitely less boring) than the traditional "keep learning all the different grammar comb…

> recently started to learn another language with Duolingo

Duolingo feels great when you're starting. You feel like you make a lot of progress quickly, and it's fun, so you do it every day. Before you know it, you've done it for half a year, and then you try to talk to somebody and realize that you've learned very little.

>the traditional "keep learning all the different grammar combinations first"

Yes, this is also a bad approach. They're both bad.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#149

Post by tossandthrow »

Tor3 wrote: post #119
tossandthrow wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... target language ... > your native language already have them It seems like there is a strong underlying understanding that learning a new language is done from a source language towards a target language. The book I am referring to argues that learning a language is about embodying that language - ie. it is not an intellectual task. The most natural embodiment og a language is speech. This is fundamentally anot…

I did not at all in any way mean to say that learning a language should be from a source language towards a target language. Quite the opposite really. I completely agree with the statement ".. embodying that language - ie. it is not an intellectual task". That matches my own anecdotal experiences, at least. What I wanted to say was that even though babies can hear and differentiate between all the sounds of every la…

Ah yes, I agree. There are biases from previous language experience.

I am learning Polish currently, that has "complex consonant clusters". I come from a vowel heavy language, and I use a lot of time with my partner to learn to pronounce these sounds.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#150

Post by octocop »

apwell23 wrote: post #47
cyborgx7 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who prioritize learning a foreign language over some of the things that you prioritize.

> some of the things that you prioritize watching reels first thing in the morning in bed

10x more effective than coffee
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