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OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

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Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theia is not a fork of vscode (even though it looks like it). It uses VSCode's code editor (Monoco) and is written from the ground up. Presumably allowing it to support extensions, that for example, vscode does not. However, its early days.

Theia is not a fork except all the parts that are.

What parts are forked? Genuinely curious.

Based on my quick reading they are just using Monaco code editor. That is 100% freely licensed as MIT. Monaco is just the line based text editor.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't the distribution system, it's the licenses on the flagship Microsoft extensions that provide C/C++, Python, Javascript/Typescript, etc. support. Those licenses are entirely Microsoft's fault.

Language servers are open source. One can write your own extension like we do today for Vim and Emacs. There is no reason we should expect Microsoft to invest tens of millions of dollars into a product development and give it free for competitors like Cursor. That's not just rational, even for companies that are not Microsoft.

> There is no reason we should expect Microsoft to invest tens of millions of dollars into a product development and give it free for competitors like Cursor. That's not just rational, even for companies that are not Microsoft.

It's an "open source" IDE. It costs nothing. All of the money they make from it is on top of the integrations like Azure Devops and Github that would make just as much money (if not even more thanks to vibe coding increasing accessibility) in Cursor, Windsurf, and VSCodium. Microsoft isn't a charity and they've been investing those tens of millions of dollars for a reason: to get a return. That's fine, that's what capitalism is (like it or not).

What's not fine is their schizophrenic approach to open source that looks very much like the classic Micro$oft embrace, extend, extinguish*. They're literally trying to extinguish competitors that are doing better than them by restricting the ecosystem after supposedly and ostensibly embracing open source. I lived through the IE6 era and this doesn't feel much different. Same player, slightly different game.

It's probably driven by some politically powerful PM or VP who perfectly resembles the Dilbert principle. Just like the degradation happening in the Windows OS front, it's just Conway's law happening all over again.

* Which if I may remind everyone, is a phrase straight out of the DOJ's discovery. Microsoft came up with the term.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EULAs and TOS are not legal agreements. It is not unlawful to break them. The TOS is purely a thing that the owner can point at as a legitimate reason for banning you. There is no law anywhere binding you to the terms of an EULA or TOS. It's even less binding than a verbal agreement and a handshake.

Honestly incredible this level of misinformation is getting posted on HN: https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&q=are+eula+legally+...

Caveat: this is not universal and depends on the juridiction.

For example in France a software/service editor can only really attack a user if he is infringing on copyrighted stuff. Outside of that the EULAs only allow it to ban/remove access to its services without risk of legal retaliation. And by infringing copyright I mean redistribution of copyrighted material, not downloading and using it. I am sure this is the case in many other countries.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#144
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will opt for what's accessible. Vim requires you to learn an alien control scheme to even navigate through code, and Emacs requires you to learn an incredibly unique programming language — one that sees no real world use, let's be honest — for basic tasks. Is it any surprise, then, that Microsoft had no issue swooping in and dominating the editor market when Emacs and Vim users believe that these are "features…

> Emacs requires you to learn an incredibly unique programming language — one that sees no real world use, let's be honest — for basic tasks. Exactly what basic tasks in Emacs requires Emacs Lisp? Give me your best/worst example. I can’t think of one.

Yep. Emacs may be unfamiliar, but almost everything is accessible with the mouse and the keyboard. From installing packages to configuring the software.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#145
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse. VSCode used to be more open source originally, back when it was enthusiastically adopted. And then, gradually, official extensions started replacing parts with closed blobs with onerous licensing terms. C# and Python extensions have both suffered from this. Although the C++ one was never fully open, if I remember correctly.

Same for the c# one I think, the old language server was and is still open source but the .net core debugger has always been proprietary. I imagine it is because it is derived from the Visual Studio debugger in some fashion. JetBrains ran into the same problem with Rider back in the .NET core days and had to write their own debugger.

Roslyn language server is OSS too: https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/tree/main/src/LanguageServe...

There was never an issue with Omnisharp OSS-ness itself nor what replaced it. It was always about debugger and then "Dev Kit" extension which builds on top of the base one - "Dev Kit" is what isn't OSS and what requires an account.

There is also an alternate open debugger: https://github.com/Samsung/netcoredbg / https://github.com/muhammadsammy/free-vscode-csharp (extension fork which swaps vsdbg out for this one)

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly incredible this level of misinformation is getting posted on HN: https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&q=are+eula+legally+...

Caveat: this is not universal and depends on the juridiction. For example in France a software/service editor can only really attack a user if he is infringing on copyrighted stuff. Outside of that the EULAs only allow it to ban/remove access to its services without risk of legal retaliation. And by infringing copyright I mean redistribution of copyrighted material, not downloading and using it. I am sure this is the…

This is again, wrong. EULA is just another word for "contract", and I'm not aware of any countries that have banned contracts.

Of course, specific EULAs may not be enforceable in some countries because they contain terms prohibited by law. But the concept of EULAs - a contract where you agree to certain terms in exchange for license to use software is enforceable in basically all countries.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caveat: this is not universal and depends on the juridiction. For example in France a software/service editor can only really attack a user if he is infringing on copyrighted stuff. Outside of that the EULAs only allow it to ban/remove access to its services without risk of legal retaliation. And by infringing copyright I mean redistribution of copyrighted material, not downloading and using it. I am sure this is the…

This is again, wrong. EULA is just another word for "contract", and I'm not aware of any countries that have banned contracts. Of course, specific EULAs may not be enforceable in some countries because they contain terms prohibited by law. But the concept of EULAs - a contract where you agree to certain terms in exchange for license to use software is enforceable in basically all countries.

IANAL, but the "A" is "agreement," which is only true if entered into. If I put a sentence at the top of my website that says "by loading this page you are agreeing to my terms of $1,000,000 per byte downloaded, payable by bitcoin" you are for sure not under any obligation that I can imagine because you didn't agree to my ~~terms~~ demand

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in earth would they stain their efforts with the "eclipse" name. Screenshots look great!

I have to somewhat defend Eclipse as the Java platform too. Twenty years ago people had hardly any RAM in their machines, and Eclipse definitely suffered for that, because without RAM you run into lots of disk i/o. The JRE was born in a time of scarce cpu power and low RAM capacities. It has put tremendous optimization pressure on the project. I develop on .net nowadays, but I have the utmost respect of what they pul…

As an embedded developer, it's still painfully slow, every CPU integration (half a dozen) are half baked, never comes with platform appropriate hotkeys, and eventually consumes enough RAM my iGPU can't allocate textures, and has been doing so since 2008.

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#149

I'm sure some (many?) will disagree with me but: VSCode is Android. Or rather, VSCode's source is AOSP and the marketplace, plugins, etc are Google Play Services. I say that with maximum derision.

> VSCode is Android Yes, an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to fulfill some purist fantasy.

an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to be open source

Re: OpenVSX, which VSCode forks rely on for extensions, down for 24 hours

#150
post #138
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Instead, I'm stuck with an option between a reasonably-secure, but completely locked-down phone (both hardware and software) with an exorbitant life-long cost and semi-locked-down phones with a pseudo-FOSS OS, whose main business is to my leak personal data for a dozen companies. Honestly, the only reason why Android (and iOS) reign u…

> I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Is your definition of “Phone” equivalent to “must run apps (non-emulated) for iPhone and/or Android”? Otherwise, I mean, these things do exist: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ >

My definition of a phone platform is that a reasonable app ecosystem must exist. Or at least the ability to easily develop the ones I need - I don't mind developing for my needs. If a more secure phone without a substantial app ecosystem is enough, then a feature phone would be fine. Librem phone unfortunately doesn't meet that requirement.

The difficulty is that even many essential service APIs are not open to alternative implementations.

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