Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors • Hacker News Board

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#141

Post by andyakb » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:12 PM UTC

skue wrote: post #138

dicktalens wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a joke right? I almost stopped at the first sentence. There are many studies detailing the inefficacy of cardio for weight loss for various reasons -- from Friedenreich (2010) which actually compares cardio vs. non-cardio groups... to Willbond et. al (2010) which talks about the overestimation of caloric expenditure. Not to mention the meta-analysis from last year: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787904…

> Guess what, those who drink diet sodas are more likely to be overweight. I guess diet sodas make you fat? Not the best analogy - because there is some evidence that artificially sweetened beverages have fueled the obesity epidemic (by possibly overriding our typical satiation point for sweet foods). See: * http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/4/688.short * http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n8/abs/oby2008…

Diet sodas are very very low calorie (some think they all are zero, but many are like 10cal per 20oz, so still negligible but not 0). Regardless, diet sodas do not make people fat. They may somehow affect other things that then increase our likelihood of eating bad things if we do not have will power, but they do not themselves make us fat

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#142

Post by glenra » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:15 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #74

peterwwillis wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for fats. This is why nobody should be taking fitness advice from random non-professionals on the internet

Does anyone think there is a place for bad fats in their diet today? I mean, do we really need to be explicit there? I'll give you carbs, but fats? If you are reading this and it is unclear...do not eat bad fats. Good fats are fine. So to be explicit on carbs (if someone is unclear): There is actually a place for all carbs. If you are lifting heavy weights, post workout you can eat simple carbs. I personally put dext…

> Does anyone think there is a place for bad fats in their diet today? I mean, do we really need to be explicit there?

You probably do really need to be explicit there. From Taubes' article that started it all:

"Foods considered more or less deadly under the low-fat dogma turn out to be comparatively benign if you actually look at their fat content. More than two-thirds of the fat in a porterhouse steak, for instance, will definitively improve your cholesterol profile (at least in comparison with the baked potato next to it); it's true that the remainder will raise your L.D.L., the bad stuff, but it will also boost your H.D.L. The same is true for lard. If you work out the numbers, you come to the surreal conclusion that you can eat lard straight from the can and conceivably reduce your risk of heart disease."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-...

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#143

Post by btilly » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

jules wrote: post #117

btilly wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

How do you find time for HN?

1. I can do HN with the kids in the house and use my ears to supervise. I can't do that with exercise. (My son is right now sitting next to me, counting and recounting his allowance.)

2. I can comfortably do HN while it is too hot outside to exercise.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#144

Post by btilly » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #116

btilly wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

How about hiring teenager next door to watch for your kids while they are sleeping and you exercise?

They are all getting ready for school in the morning themselves. And besides, have you ever tried convincing teenagers to get up earlier in the morning? (The ones that I know around here would prefer to sleep in.)

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#145

Post by btilly » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:39 PM UTC

brongondwana wrote: post #135

btilly wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

So take the kids to the park and either run with them in a stroller (if small enough) or run around the park while they play (larger kids). Either way, get them up earlier and out with you while you run. Good for them too!

My daughter needs over 12 hours of sleep, and has trouble falling asleep before it gets dark. I'm not going to make her get up earlier without very good cause.

Also I would not trust you to supervise preschool children in a public space. You clearly do not know what is required to do so responsibly.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#146

Post by glenra » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #127

mmaunder wrote: post #100

"When it comes to weight loss, creating a caloric deficit is the most important thing that matters; eating less, not moving more, is the most realistic way to do so." What? Please read Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories" or "Why we get fat". He is one of the leading thinkers in nutrition and is worshipped by other gurus like Tim Noakes (who wrote the runners bible Lore of Running). Taubes spends the first third…

I have read Christians "refuting" evolution too. I give a guy who doesn't thermodynamics (one does not refute that in a popsci book) the same credit. If he had really discovered something important, he would not be worshipped. He would present evidence to other researchers, who would confirm his experiments, etc.

Taubes has been presenting evidence to other researchers. But the medical establishment takes a loooooong time to change its collective mind on stuff like this.

Here's a relevant video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149

In that video, I think Taubes actually refutes the "law of thermodynamics" approach to losing weight in a single picture, with an existence proof. There exist people who are emaciated in half their body (say, the top half) and obese in the other half (say, the bottom). According to the "law of thermodynamics" approach, such a person should simultaneously "eat less, move more" (to cure their bottom half) and "eat more, move less" (to cure their top).

This is clearly impossible advice to follow. These people need some other form of advice. Once we figure out what that advice should be, it's probably going to be of benefit to people who are fat or emaciated over their entire body rather than a selected part.

As for your analogy: I'm an atheist, but if any Christian that others saw as "refuting" evolution had as much social proof as Taubes - had huge communities of my peers recommending his work - I'd kind of be inclined to check it out and see what he had to say.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#147

Post by glenra » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:48 PM UTC

EternalFury wrote: post #87

People always end up believing what they want to believe, even if it's illogical or totally insane. But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. This being said, you can get overweight or even obese if you eat too much, be it green beans or lard. Similarly, you can lose weight eating "bad" foods, if you maintain a calorie deficit. Obviously, for long term results, it's best to eat good food, exerci…

> But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER.

The vast majority of people who lose a substantial amount of weight through calorie restriction gain it all back and then some within a few years. Though they do lose in the short run (say, 6 months), they're worse off three years later than if they had never dieted at all. This simple fact - that dieting doesn't work in the long run - suggests that telling people to lose weight simply by dieting is BAD ADVICE.

Given that doctors are giving people bad advice, there's still plenty of room for people to try to come up with BETTER advice.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#148

Post by btilly » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:50 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #121

btilly wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

Not many people's spouses are in medical residency, and have children who are too young to be left unsupervised for 20 minutes. Even if you broaden it a bit (single parents, spouse in the military on deployment, etc) you are not looking at 90+% of the population. And most people looking after small children are pretty active anyway (due to all the lifting, running around, and so on).

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm estimates over 13 million single parents in the USA. Granted, not all of their children are small, but a lot are.

Also in every family with small kids, if one parent wants a piece of freedom, it puts pressure on the other parent. So even if it is theoretically possible, if half of those parents get the freedom to exercise in the morning, the other half do not.

Does it amount to 10% with a legitimate difficulty in scheduling exercise? I'm not sure. But it is more than I would have guessed before I had kids.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#149

Post by EternalFury » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 2:57 PM UTC

glenra wrote: post #147

EternalFury wrote: post #87

People always end up believing what they want to believe, even if it's illogical or totally insane. But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. This being said, you can get overweight or even obese if you eat too much, be it green beans or lard. Similarly, you can lose weight eating "bad" foods, if you maintain a calorie deficit. Obviously, for long term results, it's best to eat good food, exerci…

> But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. The vast majority of people who lose a substantial amount of weight through calorie restriction gain it all back and then some within a few years. Though they do lose in the short run (say, 6 months), they're worse off three years later than if they had never dieted at all. This simple fact - that dieting doesn't work in the long run - suggests that te…

You need to re-read my post.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#150

Post by EternalFury » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 3:00 PM UTC

Jimmie wrote: post #91

EternalFury wrote: post #87

People always end up believing what they want to believe, even if it's illogical or totally insane. But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. This being said, you can get overweight or even obese if you eat too much, be it green beans or lard. Similarly, you can lose weight eating "bad" foods, if you maintain a calorie deficit. Obviously, for long term results, it's best to eat good food, exerci…

>But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. I want to be a pedant and correct that to "body fat" instead of "weight". A change in diet can stress the body into retaining extra water weight, causing a temporary increase in weight.

There are definitely temporary adaptations and self-preserving mechanisms that slow down the process, but the laws of thermodynamics still hold.

Also, the calorie deficit does not even need to be large. 100-200 calories a day will already make a bit change in the long run.

Part of the problem is that people want results fast. Again, faster than even the laws of thermodynamics would permit.