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Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

chrismalek.me

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Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#141

Post by joshstrange »

mdhb wrote: post #111
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With additional swipes at ecosystems and ‘must be written in go’ with no real justification as to _why_ more than the developers preference

I am not in any way “pro go” but it’s also very clear that JS is not the future. I know it’s where a LOT of people are right now but it’s been artificially pumped up to such a massive degree by being literally the only viable choice for the web for the entirety of its existence… and that’s starting to change and from both a technical, performance and development experience it is going to lose when that advantage goes…

> also very clear that JS is not the future

I assume you are talking about WebAssembly/WASM/etc?

Foreword: I'm not super up-to-date on the state of these things, I'll refer to to as WASM from here on out but if that's not the right term then substitute it for "whatever it is that lets you write code, compile it to something that runs in the browser that isn't JS".

I don't think the future is clear at all. Honestly, I'd expect to see some kind of "Compile your JS ahead of time to this WASM bundle" before we see web developers switching over in droves to some other language that can be compiled to WASM.

Unless you take over full rendering, my understanding is you have to provide some kinds WASMDOM bridge to interact with it, my knowledge may be dated.

I write web apps in Javascript (Typescript), real "apps", not "everything should be a SPA just because", and would be interested in anything that improves performance and/or developer experience. There are some data-crunching operations that might run faster in something WASM and/or some aspects that I'd love to share between client and server (and the server can't run JS in this case). That said, everything I have seen is a significant downgrade in developer experience for something that is semi-supported.

I look forward to WASM support maturing and the developer experience improving. To my knowledge there is not a Vue/React-WASM-type framework out there yet or any framework for building web apps in WASM (without starting from a blank canvas).

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#142

Post by andersmurphy »

jgalt212 wrote: post #134
andersmurphy wrote: post #15

If you want a solid demo of what you can do with datastar. You can checkout this naive multiplayer game of life I wrote earlier in the week. Sends down 2500 divs every 200ms to all connected cliends via compressed SSE. https://example.andersmurphy.com/

your server logs are going to be an intelligible mess. This framework will be a yuge money maker for AWS CloudWatch.

Tell me more!

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#143

Post by devnull3 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #67

... was kinda inevitable that HTMX was going to bring about a Cambrian explosion in frameworks like the one it was built to escape.

It will still be much lesser than perma Cambrian explosion in js frameworks.

Infact, a lot of the patterns in the likes of HTMX will be standardised.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#144

Post by recursive »

andersmurphy wrote: post #140
recursive wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people would have a different understanding of what's entailed in an "update".

The original bit from the datastar website that was quoted was talking about polling.

I'll take your word for it, as I can't find the quote in context.

But I'm unfamiliar with any polling pattern where poll requests are expected to overlap. If updates take microseconds, does that mean I can comfortably run 10,000 of these in a second?

I even think datastar looks cool, but I just think that quote is misleading, and I still think that.

I'd like to see some realistic results, like the kind measured by this[1] type of benchmark. "Microsecond" updates sounds like microbenchmarks with very carefully crafted definitions.

[1]: https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2025/table...

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#145

Post by bitbasher »

pie_flavor wrote: post #100
bitbasher wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in my experience that's not what most are looking for in their apps. What are they looking for (in your experience)? In my experience, most people use an app (website) to solve some problem (buy something, pay taxes, whatever). They care more about functionality than how smooth the loading animation and transition was. Progressive enhancement seems like a very good way to build something people actually use (an…

Progressive enhancement is about accommodating JS being disabled. You have missed, in your description of what users care about, anything about disabling JS. Having JS disabled is a preference observable among Opinion Havers which crawl out of the woodwork on HN, but not observable among your target audience, even when your target audience is mostly HN.

Progressive enhancement isn't about supporting the minority of users that disable JavaScript. It's about sound engineering and building a robust system that is tolerant to errors. A system that can fail gracefully.

There's nothing wrong with using JavaScript. There's nothing wrong with depending on JavaScript for specific functionality. However, I don't think it's acceptable to completely break down if that JavaScript fails to load.

With SPAs and "modern" web development practices, it's all or nothing. Either everything works, or nothing works.

Not with things I build.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#146

Post by mschoch »

PufPufPuf wrote: post #139
throwaway519 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robust performance, error handling that's not stuck in 1982, and cross platform would be my guesses, but agree the OP could be more spicific as there are more benefits.

By "error handling" in Go you mean "if err == nil" repeating every five lines throughout the codebase?

[dead]

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#148

Post by rapnie »

joshstrange wrote: post #141
mdhb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not in any way “pro go” but it’s also very clear that JS is not the future. I know it’s where a LOT of people are right now but it’s been artificially pumped up to such a massive degree by being literally the only viable choice for the web for the entirety of its existence… and that’s starting to change and from both a technical, performance and development experience it is going to lose when that advantage goes…

> also very clear that JS is not the future I assume you are talking about WebAssembly/WASM/etc? Foreword: I'm not super up-to-date on the state of these things, I'll refer to to as WASM from here on out but if that's not the right term then substitute it for "whatever it is that lets you write code, compile it to something that runs in the browser that isn't JS". I don't think the future is clear at all. Honestly, I…

> To my knowledge there is not a Vue/React-WASM-type framework out there yet or any framework for building web apps in WASM (without starting from a blank canvas).

Not sure if these qualify, but these Rust web frameworks use wasm:

https://dioxuslabs.com/

https://leptos.dev/

https://yew.rs/

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#149

Post by sudodevnull »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #97
tipiirai wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A JavaScript framework, built by a person who hates JavaScript doesn’t sound right

With additional swipes at ecosystems and ‘must be written in go’ with no real justification as to _why_ more than the developers preference

Use whatever backend language you want. No justification needed when it's agnostic, even, shocker, JS

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#150

Post by sudodevnull »

geoka9 wrote: post #94
sudodevnull wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hashed script content

Thank you for doing this. Is it possible to follow the work somewhere?

Not right now. CSP in a Datastar context is mostly a red herring. If an enterprise wants it to check a box then please reach out.
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