Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

science.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 318 posts

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#141

Post by ascorbic »

somenameforme wrote: post #131
stonogo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not getting downvoted because "people don't want facts" but because your list is misleadingly incomplete or, in some instances, wrong. - The workers were put on paid leave pending termination , for procedural reasons (they could not legally be fired immediately). - Only ten were reinstated, and nobody knows why. The agency that reinstated them (NINDS) is not the same agency that issued the firing (HHS directly…

Look at the comments in this post. People think they were fired, because that's what the article claims. You have people in the top post of this thread social mediaizing each other about how now they'll get to renegotiate their contracts, or maybe not even come back, and all this nonsense. Except none of this is true. Similarly, look at how everybody is interpreting "coding error." As the editor certainly intended, e…

This is semantics though. They were for all intents and purposes fired. Being placed on leave pending termination has been the standard playbook for most of these RIFs, and I would bet is what happened to all of the others that were fired at the same time as these researchers and weren't reinstated.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#142

Post by simion314 »

imgabe wrote: post #139
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

I think the point is that is inhumane to fire someone because of "coding error", from what we know about USA not having a job is affecting your health care so might cost the person life because a "coding error" , so if you are the guy that writes a "findfWhoToFire" function please have some empathy and tripple check your code and write tests, in USA it can cost lives.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#143

Post by serviceberry »

imgabe wrote: post #139
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense.

But that aside: even if we want to alter the deal, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. Jobs are important because they are a big part of your life and because you need one to pay the bills. So you should try to avoid "haha so long" / "oops, clicked the wrong button, come back" kinds of situations.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#144

Post by imgabe »

aszantu wrote: post #140
imgabe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

can just speak for myself, but I wouldn't be employable after a layoff like that... I't get a mental meltdown and afterwards would probably be on disability until I got mentally better. They're literally teaching thausands of people that they aren't reliable and can't be trusted. I mean, if that's what you're aiming for, good for you, but I'd recon that you'll end up with more people that want your head now than befo…

[flagged]

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#145

Post by shakna »

adrianmonk wrote: post #97
shakna wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're going to try and rewrite the IRS' Individual Master File, and not care if it changes the way it behaves.

Isn't that what the IRS has already been doing the last few years, and has been making good progress on, except that they have been doing it properly so it behaves right? https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewleahey/2024/09/06/from-co... It seems more than a little silly to try to rewrite something when it isn't necessary since it has already been done. And that goes double if the goal is efficiency since it cost money…

The team responsible for doing it right, have been fired, before the project's completion.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#146

Post by TylerE »

lostlogin wrote: post #86
euroderf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, that's pretty much an indictment of capitalism.

> an indictment of capitalism. Capitalism is the least bad system we have tried.

I can think of at least one (Northern European style Socialism) that is better to live under via virtually any metric for 99.99% of people - and that includes the majority of users of this site that think they are some sort of tech unicorn.

Just not having insurance tied to employment would be such a massive win.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#147

Post by imgabe »

serviceberry wrote: post #143
imgabe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. But that aside: even if we want to alter the deal, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. Jobs are important because they are a big part of your life and beca…

> For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense.

Yeah, that is definitely "for worse". The point of hiring someone to do a job is to get something useful done. Not to hand out do-nothing sinecures to lucky lottery winners. I have friends who have transitioned from private to public sector and they unanimously complain about how useless the government lifers are. This is your tax money that is being spent.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#148

Post by kelnos »

Terr_ wrote: post #80
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) The immediate "savings" reduced workforce (even assuming the same level of work gets done) can easily be obliterated by the long-term damage of needing to pay more to attract equally-qualified applicants away from the private sector. Some quick napkin-math just t…

> This is possibly their corrupt intent.

Trump's OMB head has said as much: they want to demoralize the federal workforce and make them dread going to work every day. They want to give the federal government the reputation of being a bad, undesirable, unstable place to work. This is all no accident.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#149

Post by carlob »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #110
Freedom2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget to say "See! Government doesn't work, we've been right all along!" after you've smashed it.

Exactly, I’m glad you mentioned it because there are many who can’t see through the smoke. This is the long con but I still struggle to understand the motive there, if for nothing else, is it the simple ideal that government should be small? Why go through all the trouble?

Because once the government is not able to provide certain things like education or public transportation they can profit by selling you private religious schools that further their agenda or tunnels filled with Teslas (see Las Vegas).

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#150

Post by VMG »

grues-dinner wrote: post #70

> A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision. It was true in 1979, it's true today. Blaming "coding" for this is an explicit admission that someone is shirking their accountability.

The modern corollary is

> ... therefore a computer must make all management decisions

Post reply on HN