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France rejects backdoor mandate

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Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#141

Post by Spivak »

csomar wrote: post #133
palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

> it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. That's a very gullible take and kind of apologetic for the politicians. If you are implementing a backdoor to crypto-systems, you probably know exactly what you are doing. That, and this has been re-surfacing time and again under different pretenses make this a deliberate attack on freedom of expression. T…

I'm sure some of them do but encryption is pretty unusual as a lock that police can't break. If a judge orders a search of your house and the incriminating evidence is in a safe they will break it open if you refuse to open it for them. Governments aren't exactly happy that for digital assets there's ready made mass-market systems where the response to any search warrant will be to pound sand.

When law enforcement tells you that they're being hindered by the fact that even unsophisticated criminals have E2EE messaging and that's their biggest source of evidence (pulling text records) then asking for back doors starts to sound reasonable. It isn't of course because it defeats the whole point but it doesn't have to be a crusade against speech or whatever.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#142

Post by rixed »

_ache_ wrote: post #100
ZeroTalent wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants commit a bit less crimes than the locals in France.

Yes, but inmate population is mostly immigrant descendants (for various reasons, poverty and been unable to work are the main ones).

The morally lazy racist explanation is helped by the famous logical fallacy that if most criminals are of foreign origin, it must be because most foreigners are criminals.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#143

Post by bee_rider »

tiltowait wrote: post #108
Nextgrid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. But it finances the police industrial complex and so many people would lose out (or be forced to focus on actual crimes rather than people consensually trading plants or chemicals) that it will never happen.

> The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. Some of it, certainly, but I doubt it's all. Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen.

I wonder how much crime is done by people trying to get another hit of alcohol or cigarettes. They are pretty addictive, but I haven’t heard of this becoming a problem with legal drugs for whatever reason.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#145

Post by imoverclocked »

noduerme wrote: post #134
imoverclocked wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kinda doesn’t matter; Individuals aren’t making foreign policy decisions day-by-day, Republicans leaders are. Until we effect change in our government, we are hostile to most of our allies.

It matters to me, as a person who travels frequently, that people in the countries I visit don't believe that Americans writ large voted for the foreign policy we see being enacted. Even among the ones who voted for Trump, there seems to be a lot of shock at the aggressive posture toward our allies. I think it's important to convey that a majority of Americans are not on board with this 180 degree turn in our positio…

It matters to me too. However, it still doesn’t negate the fact that we are hostile.

There is always good news and bad news in the world. Our judicial branch is (so far) working to reverse illegal moves by the executive branch. People are protesting across the US and across the world. Our allies are currently putting pressure on us that is reversible.

The bad news is that our country is losing trust every day. We voted this person into office twice. We are deporting people for voiced opposition to the regime. There are now travel warnings to the US from multiple countries. Ironically, it’s now harder to leave the US. MAGA is trying to spread into other countries given the foothold it has gained here.

There isn’t a lot of comfort to give when the guy who holds the nations nuclear codes is questionably coherent and actively hostile.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#147

Post by roenxi »

Spivak wrote: post #141
csomar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. That's a very gullible take and kind of apologetic for the politicians. If you are implementing a backdoor to crypto-systems, you probably know exactly what you are doing. That, and this has been re-surfacing time and again under different pretenses make this a deliberate attack on freedom of expression. T…

I'm sure some of them do but encryption is pretty unusual as a lock that police can't break. If a judge orders a search of your house and the incriminating evidence is in a safe they will break it open if you refuse to open it for them. Governments aren't exactly happy that for digital assets there's ready made mass-market systems where the response to any search warrant will be to pound sand. When law enforcement te…

> Governments aren't exactly happy that for digital assets there's ready made mass-market systems where the response to any search warrant will be to pound sand.

Which is to say they understand the situation perfectly and are acting with a firm intellectual grasp of what is going on.

The issue isn't that they don't understand encryption, it is that they reject citizens having any sort of power to resist the state. Which is cool and all, authoritarianism is always with us to some extent. But at its core they see this from the viewpoint that the state is fundamentally in control and sometimes it grants people the privilege of privacy because it doesn't think what they are saying is important and therefore they can be humoured. They'll pretend technical ignorance if it gets the liberals off their backs, but the only people they are fooling are the credulous.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#148

Post by bambax »

csomar wrote: post #133
palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

> it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. That's a very gullible take and kind of apologetic for the politicians. If you are implementing a backdoor to crypto-systems, you probably know exactly what you are doing. That, and this has been re-surfacing time and again under different pretenses make this a deliberate attack on freedom of expression. T…

Listening to the debates in the lower chamber (Assemblée Nationale) and the arguments of those arguing in favor of backdoors clearly show they do not have a clue how any of this works. They are not clever players doing double-bluffs. They are ignorant stooges.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#149

Post by bambax »

daniel-s wrote: post #116
palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

These aren't dumb people. They know exactly what they're asking for. Privacy and security of the public's data is not a priority to them, surveillance and power is. Politicians would much prefer all communication in plaintext, to hell with individual freedoms and privacy, especially European politicians that don't come from the same traditions of freedom as the anglophone countries. What politician do you expect to o…

> These aren't dumb people.

Yes, they absolutely are. I agree with the rest of your comment, they aren't interested in privacy or security, want generalized surveillance, and are world-class liars.

But they are also pretty dumb and extremely ignorant of anything technical.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#150

Post by whatshisface »

daniel-s wrote: post #116
palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

These aren't dumb people. They know exactly what they're asking for. Privacy and security of the public's data is not a priority to them, surveillance and power is. Politicians would much prefer all communication in plaintext, to hell with individual freedoms and privacy, especially European politicians that don't come from the same traditions of freedom as the anglophone countries. What politician do you expect to o…

>especially European politicians that don't come from the same traditions of freedom as the anglophone countries.

Have you been reading English-language news? Attempts at limiting privacy and advancing surveillance have been nonstop in the anglophone world over the past decades. What may even have been the first attempt at having a backdoor mandate was American: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip

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