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Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

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Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#141

Post by geraldwhen »

throwaway201606 wrote: post #104
lukan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not jump to conclusions so soon. A) I would question why they would do the effort of still doing surveillance on him B) if they do, they are usually so smart to keep the door closed C) like others have mentioned, sewer cleaning comes with a lot of tech (I assume remote controlled machines)

I would think that anyone working in a sewer inspection van would keep the door open because it is highly likely that sewer inspection vans smell like, well, sewer.

If the van is loaded with equipment, or even if it isn’t, theft and robbery are common in most of the US. You can’t leave a van door open and not be extremely vigilant.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#142

Post by shadowgovt »

taosx wrote: post #46
kstrauser wrote: post #5

Nooooooo! He was my next door neighbor a few years ago, and I knew him as a person before I realized that I knew him as a hero. His dogs were fiercely protective of his house, which is perfectly understandable. One day I saw a "sewer cleaning" van behind his house, and I have a hard time believing that's what it really was: https://honeypot.net/2025/03/12/rip-mark-klein.html

This is crazy.. you guys are focused on vans and mini stories when all his sacrifice and that of thousand if not more americans was snuffed. `Congress intervened by passing the FISA Amendments Act which, in part, granted “retroactive immunity” to the telecommunications carriers for their involvement in the NSA spying programs. This massive grant of immunity for past violations of multiple state and federal laws prote…

You have to remember that half, possibly more than half, of the country is more than okay with what the NSA was doing and is doing.

It's not at all surprising that Congress would indemnify people for, more or less, doing what Congress authorized them to do. If we don't like it, we could consider, maybe not voting the same people into that Congress. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over. And over.

A full 24 Senators and 63 Representatives have held their seats for over 36 years. That's not what you'd expect of a citizenship that was actually upset about being spied upon by their government.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#143

Post by shadowgovt »

anonym29 wrote: post #56
kstrauser wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this without intending to denigrate Snowden at all: Klein's situation was less messy. Snowden had a top secret clearance and vowed to safeguard all the secrets he came across. Klein was just a regular guy doing regular work for a regular company when he saw something strange. That doesn't mean I think Snowden was wrong, just that there's a ton of room for people to say "I agree with him but he shouldn't have do…

Snowden also swore an oath to uphold the constitution, including the fourth amendment that the NSA was illegally violating (one NSA crime) and covering up (second NSA crime), including by lying to congress (third NSA crime), as well as to protect America from domestic enemies, like the kind of traitors who'd come up with a secret plan to violate the constitutional rights of the entire country and lie about it to cong…

And now he's nice and cozy in a country that is busy invading its neighbor... But one that the US President has himself cozied up to the leadership of as of late.

It's an odd world that makes odd bedfellows. One wonders depending on how the next four years go if Snowden could even catch a pardon.

... or if he did, the Russians would even let him leave.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#144

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

hox wrote: post #116
tptacek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we do. It was a sewer inspection van. If it was the NSA, their van wouldn't look so goofy that people took one look at the photo and assumed it had to be an NSA van, which is what happened here. This is a bad movie plot trope: the bad guys can't simultaneously be omniscient and so dumb they're trivially outed like this, just like the real supervillain isn't going to monologue while you free yourself from the chai…

That, and it would be an FBI van, not an NSA van. But the point holds.

Sometime there’s vehicle from at least three businesses and two government agencies gathered round an inconspicuous looking civil infrastructure element, and I have to wonder who spying on who. And how much that’s costing.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#145

Post by shadowgovt »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
psunavy03 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If Snowden was such a hero, why did he take Russian citizenship What choice did he have? Do you think he'd receive a fair trial if he came back to the US? and not oppose the invasion of Ukraine? Did he actively support it? I hadn't heard that. Major bummer, if so. Otherwise, he didn't oppose it for the same reason very few other Russians opposed it. I'm sure the reason will occur to you if you think hard enough.

> Do you think he'd receive a fair trial if he came back to the US?

Honestly, yes. He was extremely visible and it was the Obama administration. I think it was well-understood how much damage it could have done to Democratic party interests if they nailed him to a wall for exposing behavior that was extremely unpopular among their constituents. Manning did far worse with far less duty-of-care and received a pardon after seven years.

For all its flaws, the US is actually a place where fair trials happen most of the time (especially when someone's in the media's eye). Snowden, much like Assange or Manning, wasn't in a position where he could just be disappeared. I think he traded, at most, a decade of discomfort for a lifetime of exile.

But it's his call. It's not like the US is the only good place to be; maybe a lifetime of exile is fine.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#146

Post by shadowgovt »

jmpman wrote: post #36

I expect there were 10,000 who knew, and he’s the only one who spoke up. Now, the other 9,999 likely believed it was to thwart terrorism, as this was post 9/11. Maybe those who had visibility into who was being surveyed were checking to ensure the spying didn’t cross their ethical boundaries. Interesting to think of what each individual in the system was considering.

Oh, I think it's much simpler: the other 9,999 didn't care enough to risk continued employment. Security today was dearer to them than the hypothetical benefits to strangers.

(Perhaps worth noting: not to detract from what Mark did, but he was retired and therefore didn't have a job on the line. Credit to him for leveraging his position of privilege as a retiree to speak out about what he knew.)

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#147

Post by shadowgovt »

tehjoker wrote: post #74

It's crazy almost nothing changed after this revelation. What a fake democracy we live in.

Or a real democracy with voters either deeply apathetic about being watched or deeply anxious about what happens if nobody's watching.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#148

Post by nzeid »

kstrauser wrote: post #5

Nooooooo! He was my next door neighbor a few years ago, and I knew him as a person before I realized that I knew him as a hero. His dogs were fiercely protective of his house, which is perfectly understandable. One day I saw a "sewer cleaning" van behind his house, and I have a hard time believing that's what it really was: https://honeypot.net/2025/03/12/rip-mark-klein.html

This whole sewer inspection thing must be particularly hilarious to the people performing the inspection. "Yo dude, we're officially spies! hi5"

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#149

Post by llmthrow103 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #142
taosx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is crazy.. you guys are focused on vans and mini stories when all his sacrifice and that of thousand if not more americans was snuffed. `Congress intervened by passing the FISA Amendments Act which, in part, granted “retroactive immunity” to the telecommunications carriers for their involvement in the NSA spying programs. This massive grant of immunity for past violations of multiple state and federal laws prote…

You have to remember that half, possibly more than half, of the country is more than okay with what the NSA was doing and is doing. It's not at all surprising that Congress would indemnify people for, more or less, doing what Congress authorized them to do. If we don't like it, we could consider, maybe not voting the same people into that Congress. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over. And over. A full 24 Sen…

It's obviously not a problem of electing the wrong people. There are enough checks and balances in the system to ensure that there is no change forthcoming.
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