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Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

theregister.com

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Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#141

Post by thomasahle »

tw04 wrote: post #118
throwaway888abc wrote: post #8

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

The EU has to start working more with China, for better or worse.

Not as friends or allies, but there aren't a lot of those left anyway. It's only rational in this multi polar world to have some level of engagement with all parties.

Most of the sanctions Europe have on China were just to please the US anyway.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#142

Post by znpy »

briandear wrote: post #29
throwaway888abc wrote: post #8

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?

because we already collaborate, sell and trade with them all the time.

might as well collaborate with them on this as well.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#143

Post by com »

svorakang wrote: post #95
addicted wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s open source it doesn’t matter who the state they’re collaborating with is.

Well. I have worked quite a bit with Chinese businesses and let's just put like this: It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. It is common for new employees to walk in with code bases of previous projects they have worked with and there is a great deal of administration involved in ensuring that no one else get…

I hate to break it to you but it’s extremely common for Western employees to do the same. I had to investigate what seemed like a new employee attempting to begin an exfil of our source code only to discover what looked like all of EMC’s core code, the new employee’s last employer, in a gdrive folder.

Incredibly common.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#144

Post by matt-p »

omnimus wrote: post #122
microtonal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all in for RISC-V, but ARM Holdings is British (and owned by the Japanese SoftBank group). ASML is in the The Netherlands. And there are some European ARM CPU vendors (NXP, ST Microelectronics, etc.). So Europe could also standardize on ARM without sovereignty issues?

Why risking doing that if you can go to ASML and those vendors to manucature you RISC which isnt owned by Softbank…

Because almost all software runs on arm today, almost none (comparatively) runs on risc-v.

Or perhaps because ARM is miles ahead of risc-v today.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#145

Post by fransje26 »

wg0 wrote: post #81

It rather should be for general computing too starting with government office computers. Yeah they'll be slow but nothing can be slower than an x86 loaded with a Windows 11 or something on it.

> Yeah they'll be slow but nothing can be slower than an x86 loaded with a Windows 11 or something on it.

I nearly spit out my tea laughing.

That's going to be hard to beat, yes..

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#147

Post by MaxPock »

tw04 wrote: post #118
throwaway888abc wrote: post #8

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

"This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US" Is this supposed to be a nefarious Chinese activity?

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#148

Post by knorker »

camel-cdr wrote: post #72
anotherhue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The framework main board is surely that? https://frame.work/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard

No it's not. For HPC good software support for the vector extension is basically everything that matters, and the framework main board doesn't support that extension. I would currently recommend the BananaPI BPI-F3 or the OrangePI RV2 for that purpose, as they both have the same SpacemiT X60 cores, which support the vector extension. Sadly there are currently only in-order cores with RVV support available. Getting a…

Thank you! I've been waiting for a viable RVV board for a long time. Just ordered the OrangePi RV2.

This unblocks me properly working to optimize for vector support in software. OOO and even wider RVV registers will then automatically speed things up, without even a recompile.

Yes, I know I could use qemu, but it's not the same. I feel like this is what unblocks me on the software side.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#149

Post by znpy »

svorakang wrote: post #95
addicted wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s open source it doesn’t matter who the state they’re collaborating with is.

Well. I have worked quite a bit with Chinese businesses and let's just put like this: It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. It is common for new employees to walk in with code bases of previous projects they have worked with and there is a great deal of administration involved in ensuring that no one else get…

> It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer.

yeah, china is just not playing the stupid licensing and copyright game. chinese companies infringe trademarks and break licenses all the time. doing so boosts their business/economy overall so the state just doesn't bother with enforcing anything.

the annoying thing is that we're not really playing the game either, or at least, we have laws that get enforced "randomly". it was recent news that meta torrented some 80 terabytes of stuff (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-o...) and essentially nothing happened. back in the day aaron schwartz was driven to suicide over a way smaller chunk of scientific papers downloaded.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#150

Post by sashank_1509 »

Yoric wrote: post #126
sashank_1509 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a dictatorship different from a monarchy? There have been plenty of good monarchies throughout history. Frederick The Great, created the Prussian State. Stuart’s were well loved that they ended parliamentary democracy to restore the Stuarts. Victorian, Elizabethan era were also prosperous and well known. Ceasar was the final monarch who united the enmity between the nobles and plebs. The problem is we look at…

I'm going to assume that you're speaking of monarchies in which the monarch is the actual ruler, rather than UK, Belgium, the Netherlands or Canada for instance, right? In that case, I'd say that a monarchy is essentially dictatorship + a (usually) clear line of succession.

Fair enough, yes I mean monarchies proper, where the government is actually monarchical, not a ceremonial monarch.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Thailand, Bhutan might be the only monarchies left. (Monarchy + clear form of succession).

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