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Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

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Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#141

Post by tmoravec »

OisinMoran wrote: post #130

I've actually been working on something tackling exactly this for a little while now. It's a social network where you post to your own curated tags, and people can follow any subset of those. So you can post both your "local small town history" and also "important cs papers", and those interested in either or both can follow as they choose. It's alts by default. And to start, it's focused on links. Reverse chronologi…

The basic idea with tags sounds very similar to Reddit. Especially with the initial focus on links. Reddit has degenerated into something a bit different, however. Why would your app stay true to the original concept in the face of scaling and financial pressure?

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#142

Post by LorenDB »

Additionally, take action to shape your feeds to your desires rather than Big Tech's desires. Block buttons exist for a reason, as does the "don't recommend this channel" button on YouTube. Clickbait? People raging about politics who clearly have no desire to seriously consider the other side? Stupid memes that will do little to benefit your time? All of them get the chopping block.

As a space fan, I necessarily see a lot of people on Twitter who are blindly pro- or anti-Elon. Both types get blocked, not because I disagree with them but because I don't need that sort of rabid content in my feed.

Quick edit to add: block all parody accounts on Twitter as well. They almost never are actually worthwhile.

Also, did you know you can block advertisers on Twitter? It's very catarthic.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#144

Post by bluefirebrand »

visarga wrote: post #100
jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because before people had a concern and were wrong, doesn't mean if we have the same concern now we'll be wrong again.

I think the opposite, just like we used to tell people to "go read a book", now we'll tell people to "spend some time with an AI" to get cultured. The more AI time the better for your education.

I don't think "go read a book" has really generalized in this way

"Go Read a book" was really meant to be synonymous with "Go educate yourself"

No one really says "Go read a blog" or "Go read your facebook feed" the same way, at least as far as I know.

I sure hope "go spend more time on social media" or "go talk to an AI" never becomes synonymous with "educate yourself". I shudder at the thought

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#145

Post by sien »

jahewson wrote: post #87
svara wrote: post #13

Social media has really proven that phrase that "the medium is the message", which I remember long ago thinking was a little odd and not obviously true. With all the new stuff coming out in the LLM field, I've taken a cynically mechanistic view to this: We're basically being conditioned by (the currently popular crop of) social media to work in very short context windows, which aren't sufficient for advanced reasonin…

“The medium is the message” goes both ways though. For social media, the inverse is not just “go read a book” but the far more challenging “go write a book”. That’s just not something I’m going to do. I’m certainly not going to find a publisher, get past the gatekeepers, and find a wide enough audience to make the big chunk of time I had to devote to writing worth it.

Anyone can write a book now that is available to hundreds of millions people. The gatekeepers can no longer stop you.

However, as you say, writing something good enough and with a big enough audience is very hard.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#146

Post by nonrandomstring »

Terr_ wrote: post #126
jasode wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>by Alec's excellent video which I recommend everyone watch. I get what your advice is about but to add some nuance which didn't cover... you should consider that I learned of Alec's Technology Connections channel 9 years ago because the Youtube algorithm suggested it to me . Why did Youtube do that? It was because I had watched Ben's Applied Science excellent video showing vinyl grooves under an electron microscope:…

Yeah, pro/anti "algorithms" is too reductive, especially since the old status-quo was also an algorithm of people and processes. I'd rather use a lens more like all the open-source/free-software concerns about controlling your own computer: 1. Can I see how the recommendation algorithm is intended to work? The site-owner says it works for my benefit, but what if they're mistaken, or lying? 2. What has it recorded abo…

Kind of comes down to one of Neil Postman's questions

"Whose problem is it that it solves?"

It's possible to get some benefit from an algorithm/process, just as a side effect, that was never designed to work in your interest and is an opaque cloud service. Maybe the service is solving the network owner's problem of selling you to advertisers. If you want to maximise for "interest and relevance to my life goals" there's nothing to stop you running your own "algorithm" of course, except any obstacles put in your way by the data network owner. For that reason it's more important to pay attention to the freedom of the network (open API, federated, maximally distributed etc) than the algorithms that run on it. If you control the former you control the latter. HN (the network) seems to allow a lot from the plethora of viewers I've seen.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#147

Post by mlekoszek »

ddq wrote: post #105
svara wrote: post #13

Social media has really proven that phrase that "the medium is the message", which I remember long ago thinking was a little odd and not obviously true. With all the new stuff coming out in the LLM field, I've taken a cynically mechanistic view to this: We're basically being conditioned by (the currently popular crop of) social media to work in very short context windows, which aren't sufficient for advanced reasonin…

I highly recommend reading Marshal McLuhan's book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man from which that phrase originates (and not just a Wikipedia summary, different medium after all!)

And as a follow-up, Lewis Mumford, Technics and Civilization.

Where McLuhan argues technologies shape worldviews, Mumford argues worldviews also shape technologies.

And then perhaps into the world of science and technology studies (STS), where these questions are explored more deeply, and specific cases are examined.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#148

Post by MarkLowenstein »

al_borland wrote: post #34
MarkLowenstein wrote: post #5

Seems like a mode of thinking that is appearing everywhere, not just on social media. Go to MOD Pizza. You can order any toppings you want--your favorites. Yet many if not most people will go through the menu of preselected toppings combos to see if there's one they'd like. This makes no sense to me.

Sometimes I just want to eat some food without making 50 decisions. I'm not a chef, I don't know what pairs well together. If picking my own toppings, I will end up getting a plain pepperoni pizza. If there is a pre-built combo that looks appealing, it gives me the opportunity to branch out a little more and maybe find something new I like. I'm happy places exist that let people be a little more creative, or allow me…

Interesting because I've always been the picky eater (in Western food) which is why ordering exactly what I like is especially appealing. You must have grown very weary of the substitution process.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#149

Post by allenu »

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #5

Seems like a mode of thinking that is appearing everywhere, not just on social media. Go to MOD Pizza. You can order any toppings you want--your favorites. Yet many if not most people will go through the menu of preselected toppings combos to see if there's one they'd like. This makes no sense to me.

If I'm going to MOD Pizza, I'm going because I want to eat something quick and easy. I'm not necessarily going there to maximize my pizza-eating experience. I honestly prefer picking something from the menu and maybe adding some extra toppings.

In general, I don't personally enjoy having to make decisions about particular ingredients when I go somewhere to eat. It's mental energy I don't want to have to expend. Not having any dietary restrictions, I personally prefer somewhere that offers a fixed set of items. I'd also say that when I was younger, I was afraid of making the wrong choices and didn't know what some ingredients were whenever I'd go somewhere that did have choices, so that added a little bit of anxiety.

Re: Kill your Feeds – Stop letting algorithms dictate what you think

#150

Post by zug_zug »

I feel like there are two approaches that are never gonna work: self-control and asking companies to change.

I think there is an obvious answer though: taking control of the algorithm via AI. I don't think we're there yet, but it's gotta be a matter of time until somebody makes a local AI agent that browses all these feeds and then filters them to your satisfaction (x% about politics, y% upbeat, z% violence, z% about video games).

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