Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenEuroLLM

openeurollm.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 181 posts

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#141

Post by rtsil »

ffsm8 wrote: post #70
simion314 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So CERN and similar? you think it could have been done without any coordonation? Like 2 guys faking under they make it USA style ?

Well, what actual value did cern produce beyond theoretical research with no application in sight?

Theoretical research in itself is one of the actual values. Any real-world application from CERN are purely incidental (albeit welcome).

The other values include redistribution of wealth, support for businesses, job creation, sustaining internal intellectual capabilities without depending on the whims of fickle corporations, and probably many others that I can't think of for now.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#142

Post by opentokix »

Where is the models - I don't care about your "intentions" and your logos - just make and publish the models. This current form is _useless_

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#143

Post by Fnoord »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #31
woah wrote: post #10

The three goals featured prominently above the fold are: > truly open > including data, documentation, training and testing code, and evaluation metrics; including community involvement > compliant > under EU regulations, OpenEuroLLM will provide a series of transparent and performant LLMs > diverse > for European languages and other socially and economically interesting ones, preserving linguistic and cultural diver…

That note about EU regulations may also be dangerous. There is an increasing trend of European leaders supporting censorship of speech, on weak justifications like misinformation that are applied very aggressively. There are even videos of police showing up at people’s homes in some countries, over tweets they made. I don’t have faith that these European LLMs will be trustworthy as a result.

> There are even videos of police showing up at people’s homes in some countries, over tweets they made.

Yeah, if you are from The Netherlands and want police showing up your door, mention on Twitter that you want to shoot mr. Wilders. Threatening someone to take away their life has repercussions. How peculiar!

(Please don't do it. Example is just illustrative. Actually, I know a website with a forum where this happened approx 20 years ago. Server got seized. They didn't log. FDE, but obviously got broken at some point.)

Freedom of speech isn't that you can spout whatever you want and not face repercussions.

Besides that, there's Popper.

Furthermore, there's this thing called chilling effect. You might wanna ask GOP Senators and Congressman about that.

I have faith in LLMs and AI, as long as it is reproducible and transparent. Right now, when I use Mistral, it refers to sources. A step in the right direction.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#144

Post by pmontra »

forty wrote: post #124
ffsm8 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but collaboration comes with a cost too. As a European myself, I would prefer them to put less emphasis on collaboration and more on actually doing something's with the resources available to them and making that freely available. Collaboration will happen naturally and without having to coordinate. But as they said, this is less about producing value then it's about signaling

Collaboration brought us peace. Peace is underrated these days. (NB: I mean the good kind of collaboration of course, on science and industry - it's a loaded word in French at least)

I don't agree with that. We had two powers dividing Europe in two, placing their own armies all over the place and doinglg their best to convince the other party that the world would be destroyed if it dared to attack. That was what brought us peace. Collaboration in the form of the various European international organizations was a consequence.

Making another war in Europe was basically impossible. We had one in Yugoslavia which was not aligned with the two blocks and anyway only after the USSR lost the cold war.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#145

Post by Fnoord »

amrrs wrote: post #78

It's funny they don't have Hugging Face as their Partner. Literally, the biggest face of Open LLMs sitting right in Europe, but somehow it's not a partner.

Hugging Face is an American start-up, by French people. It resides in Brooklyn, New York. Saying they sit right in Europe is dishonest.

Although, as a Dutch person, I'd like to point out Brooklyn technically is Dutch. ;)

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#146

Post by solid_fuel »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #113
huijzer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is truly in accordance with european values, where we reward participation and proclamation. Yes. In my experience the government is happy with "looks good doesn't work" as long as it truly looks good.

Lol yeah unlike corporationd who are happy with “makes life intentionally worse but brings in money”. Jesus the ideology in this place runs so thick with some people.

It’s truly absurd the ways some people here twist logic. “Government did it” means it MUST be bad, of course. It takes a willful ignorance, pretending that all government efforts are bad and all corporate efforts are therefore good.

As if ARPAnet just sprang from a group of MBAs sitting around unemployed.

When I read 1984 in high school, I didn’t really get the scariest bit: a lot of people are PROUD to shout that 2 + 2 = 5 as long as it makes a poor person somewhere else sad.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#147

Post by greenavocado »

jkaptur wrote: post #87
ffsm8 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what actual value did cern produce beyond theoretical research with no application in sight?

In case you're serious: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World_Wide_Web

ARPANET and its successor TCP/IP already provided the fundamental networking infrastructure. Various hypertext systems were also being developed independently in and before the 1980s, like Ted Nelson's Xanadu project and Bill Atkinson's HyperCard. The key ideas of linked documents and markup languages were "in the air" so to speak. However, CERN provided some unique conditions that helped the WWW succeed where other systems didn't. It had an immediate practical need - helping physicists share information across institutions. It was developed in an open, non-commercial environment that encouraged sharing. CERN made the WWW technology freely available without royalties. The international nature of CERN helped drive early adoption across countries.

Without CERN, I think we would have eventually seen some form of hyperlinked document system emerge from either academia or industry, but it might have been more proprietary or fragmented.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#148

Post by hanshansen43 »

sunshine-o wrote: post #121
hanshansen43 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, the sad reality is that I see parallels with the late-stage Soviet Union and its satellite states. NOT when it comes to the level of violence and repression or quality of living. Those two things are world-class. But in the sense that there's a more or less unelected political establishment that's a) Recursive: It does things only to show them off to itself. b) Not exposed to real-world consequences. c…

Yeah you are right there is probably no need to look very far ... Now what worry me is from I understand of the collapse of the Soviet Union (but I might be very wrong) is they kind let things happen and was less aggressive by the end. On the contrary the EC is now consolidating power rapidly and are getting very aggressive.

well you can only compare the communist party and the EU in those narrow ways I described above, not in its "aggression".

You can't even compare the EC's aggression (pointless regulations) with Soviet ones (no need to elaborate, but it's gruesome).

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#149

Post by Fnoord »

sunshine-o wrote: post #88
dkyc wrote: post #3

But can I run it on Gaia-X? This really reads like a parody. Press release, “a consortium of 20 research institutions”, “awarded the STEP (Strategic Technologies for Europe Platform) seal”. Lots of grandiose self-congratulations. All with nothing to run, download or try of course.

What I am gonna say here is not a political point but I hope someone can point me the pattern (and some something to read about it) I have observed with for example the EU. Yes it sounds like a parody or an onion piece. We know the European search engine, cloud, blockchain never got anywhere. I don't even believe that anybody ever really tried. Now you have to put yourself in their head for 2 minutes and here is what…

There's various EU cloud providers. It seems to me it is difficult to compete with these energy prices.

Re: OpenEuroLLM

#150

Post by egorfine »

GTP wrote: post #128
mrshu wrote: post #69

It is worth noting there is _another_, completely unrelated project (also) called *EuroLLM* that is also EU funded which not only shares many of the same goals, but has already fulfilled many of them: 1. large multilingual dataset 2. open science approach 3. competitive performance Here is the HF blogpost that introduced it in December 2024 (along with various benchmarks): https://huggingface.co/blog/eurollm-team/eur…

Thanks for the heads up, I missed this project! However, on their page they write "Project Timeline: 1 May 2024 - 30 April 2025". April isn't far away, anyone knows what's supposed to happen afterwards?

That timeline is just for the preliminary hearing on potential committee members.

No sarcasm, sorry.

Post reply on HN