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The Generative AI Con

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141–150 of 503 posts

Re: The Generative AI Con

#141
> And when this all falls apart — and I believe it will — there will be a very public reckoning for the tech industry.

and will trigger the collapse of the wider asset price bubble, with consequent economic turmoil - an unfortunately necessary reset, in my opinion.

I suppose the good news is that likely the current US administration will wear this one, though not completely being their fault (much like Covid), and a political reset will also ensue.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#142
post #5

> When you put aside the hype and anecdotes, generative AI has languished in the same place, even in my kindest estimations, for several months, though it's really been years. The one "big thing" that they've been able to do is to use "reasoning" to make the Large Language Models "think" [...] This is missing the most interesting changes in generative AI space over the last 18 months: - Multi-modal: LLMs can consume…

Cost as in, cost to you? Or cost to serve? If the cost-to-serve is subsidized by VC money, they aren't getting cheaper, they're just leading you on.

The cost to serve.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#143
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe OpenAI can become an advertising company?

Maybe. Did you foresee Google becoming a massively profitable advertising company with a search engine attached in 2004? I certainly didn't.

Google solved a real problem. They indexed the web and made search work, and they did it very cheaply. So cheaply, in fact, that they could give their service away to users and monetize it with ads. LLMs are not like this. They're both extremely expensive to run and they don't do anything truly valuable--there's no killer app. So how exactly is OpenAI or their ilk (or for that matter the rest of us) supposed to use these things to make money?

This is the only question, and the fact it's still an open question just screams "hype bubble". My bet is this AI stuff goes the way of the NFT.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#144
post #14

Ed occasionally makes good points, but he's very very angry at Big Tech, and his anger often gets in the way of his message. Reading his latest rant reminds me of Karl Denninger railing against Google around the time of their IPO, claiming they would never make enough money to justify an $85 share price (a $1000 investment then would be worth around $375,000 today).

I think there's the same logic flaw of looking at how things are at the start - so so - and how they may be in 20 years - Google getting an advertising cut for most of the world's commerce, AI replacing/doubling the ~100tn/yr labour market.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#145

> And when this all falls apart — and I believe it will — there will be a very public reckoning for the tech industry. and will trigger the collapse of the wider asset price bubble, with consequent economic turmoil - an unfortunately necessary reset, in my opinion. I suppose the good news is that likely the current US administration will wear this one, though not completely being their fault (much like Covid), and a…

I'm worried with a slowing housing market (demand is at a 5yr low) there could be a perfect storm of major market crash coupled with plummeting home values.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#147
The killer app for AI is going to replacing frontline support staff. When you call, email or chat with support for companies that are screwing up, you won't be able to reach a human without going through several layers of "helpful" AI agents first.

To succeed here, AI doesn't have to be cheap or good, it only has to be cheaper than human staff.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#148

This is one of the most tilted pieces I’ve ever read. For months Ed has predicted The AI Bubble will burst “any day now” frequently citing ai company’s revenue as a sign the product is not viable and the valuations are too high. The valuations seem to be primarily based on the R&D progress instead of on a theory that widespread adoption of the existing product will experience an uptick. The current landscape imho sho…

> This is one of the most tilted pieces I’ve ever read. He comes across as just a ludicrously unpleasant, spite-filled person. > I'm fucking tired of having to write this sentence. > I am so very bored of having this conversation > I don't care about this number! > Shut the fuck up! > This isn't the early days of shit . > Didn't we just talk about this? Fine, fine. > $3.25 billion a quarter is absolutely pathetic. >…

There’s substance under the brashness, though. He’s just upset that his reason is contradicting what everyone around him is saying, struggling to cope with the dissonance. Like being gaslighted. It’s a natural reaction, but I agree, annoying to read.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#149
post #12

I’m a little shocked at how much negativity there is around LLMs among developers. It’s a new tool that requires some learning, and it’s sometimes not so great, but if you’ve used an IDE with real coding assistance built in (eg. VS Code in Edit with Copilot mode - NOT Chat mode, using Claude 3.5), it’s honestly not much worse than a junior dev and 100x faster. And if the code is bad you throw it away and try again 10…

The article is about how the economics of the LLM market is making all tech look bad. They need trillions of dollars in returns. VC's won't finance tech startups for decades. I use Cursor sometimes, and VSCode + Continue with llama.cpp, and it's great. That's not worth billions. It's definitely not worth trillions.

> I use Cursor sometimes, and VSCode + Continue with llama.cpp, and it's great. That's not worth billions. It's definitely not worth trillions.

That seems like a suspect claim. If you're saying that you, personally, cannot create billions of dollars in value with Cursor & friends that is certainly true - but you are in no position to make a judgement call about where the cap on value creation is for the LLM market is worth based on your personal use cases. LLMs don't just do code completion. We really can't estimate how much potential value is being created without doing some serious data diving and studying of cases.

A better argument would be that the DeepSeek experience suggests these companies have no moat and therefore no way to earn a return on capital. But LLMs are probably going to generate at least trillions of dollars in value because they're on par or ahead of Wikipedia and Google for answering many queries then they also have hundreds of ancillary uses like answering medical questions at weird hours or creative/professional writing.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#150
post #13
post #7

Why in the world would you want a car?? They are horrible to maintain, difficult to operate, expensive, smell bad, and are slower than horses! -somebody salty about automobiles, circa 1900.

Tbh they'd have been right. Cars are expensive to buy and to maintain. They are difficult to operate—people die every day. They do smell bad, and the particulate matter they emit is extremely bad for you. And they are slow: Traffic is an unsolvable problem in urban centres. Redesigning our cities around cars was one of the big mistakes of the 20th century.

The more pertinant observation is that cars are a great tool for mobility, but going _all in_ on cars causes a whole bunch of issues at society scale. If you zone cities and design infrastructure with the assumption that everyone drives, it forces everybody into the least space efficient mode of transport. You have to designate huge amounts of valuable real estate to keeping all those cars somewhere. People who _can't_ drive will have much more difficulty navigating life. When cars arrived, some parts of the world made sure their cities were still easy to navigate by foot, bike and transit, and I'd argue they're more pleasant places to be.

The point isn't to say that new tech is bad, but that there can be adverse consequences to jumping in wholesale.

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