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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#141

Post by buggy6257 »

Kuinox wrote: post #136
rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

The UX of Jetbrains IDE is objectively worse, I will take Rider as example (since I use it everyday). We can start with basic things: the contrast, in default settings in dark mode for both. In theses conditions, Rider contrast is too low for a screen you have to stare all the day, compared to VS Code. Commonly used item are in sub menus (in vscode they are sorted by most commonly items on top), common shortcuts requ…

So your arguments that it’s “objectively bad” are

- it has bad defaults for theme (which I bet most devs change immediately anyways on every IDE)

- “common items” (which when unspecified could be assumed to be subjective to each persons workflow) are hidden in submenus?

- “common shortcuts” (again unspecified) require stretching (again, something trivially changed)

Unless you have more these feel not only extremely weak but extremely subjective. Please avoid trying to phrase your opinions as some fact it’s a tiring trope these days.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#142

Post by alde »

hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I talked to a Jetbrains representative at a conference about this. They said Fleet was/is an experiment in the realtime collaboration tech, which really bloomed during Covid. They said it is no longer seen as a good direction internally, so not to expect much.

Maybe things have changed since then, no idea.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#143

Post by joseda-hg »

MortyWaves wrote: post #100
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

I’ve been trying DataGrip for SQL stuff after Azure Data Studio (a closed source fork of VS Code) was recently deprecated. It has all the same UI problems I remember of their other IDEs like WebStorm. Clunky and weird looking, and that’s coming from someone that appreciates generally Windows 9x style controls and palette, JetBrains just can’t get it right. As a side note one of the advertised features of DataGrip is…

Ostensibly it's not one of the main features, Datagrip as a product has been a thing long before AI integration was even a thought

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#144

Post by joshstrange »

alde wrote: post #138
rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

I have moved to VScode after being a paying Jetbrains customer for 6 years. The Jetbrains IDEs are clunky and slow, they also have plenty of bugs which remain open for years. They do offer some really powerful refactoring capabilities but I don’t miss them. Most of my work is in Go, Rust and Typescript. I was told by Jetbrains representatives that Fleet is now deprioritized internally, which is a pity.

I could not be happier that they are deprioritizing fleet. I am not a fan of the VS code style editor and that’s all I saw fleet as.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#145

Post by bayindirh »

Kuinox wrote: post #136
rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

The UX of Jetbrains IDE is objectively worse, I will take Rider as example (since I use it everyday). We can start with basic things: the contrast, in default settings in dark mode for both. In theses conditions, Rider contrast is too low for a screen you have to stare all the day, compared to VS Code. Commonly used item are in sub menus (in vscode they are sorted by most commonly items on top), common shortcuts requ…

I believe all of them are configurable in Rider, no?

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#147

Post by Kuinox »

buggy6257 wrote: post #141
Kuinox wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX of Jetbrains IDE is objectively worse, I will take Rider as example (since I use it everyday). We can start with basic things: the contrast, in default settings in dark mode for both. In theses conditions, Rider contrast is too low for a screen you have to stare all the day, compared to VS Code. Commonly used item are in sub menus (in vscode they are sorted by most commonly items on top), common shortcuts requ…

So your arguments that it’s “objectively bad” are - it has bad defaults for theme (which I bet most devs change immediately anyways on every IDE) - “common items” (which when unspecified could be assumed to be subjective to each persons workflow) are hidden in submenus? - “common shortcuts” (again unspecified) require stretching (again, something trivially changed) Unless you have more these feel not only extremely w…

The fact that's the contrast is bad isn't something subjective, the font rendering is also shit and reduce the contrast further. This is an accessibility issue, not some subjective problem.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#148

Post by damidekronik »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

Love Webstorm, but I am having constant problems with type hints. Typescript with a solid setup that over time stopped working well.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#149

Post by Kuinox »

bayindirh wrote: post #145
Kuinox wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX of Jetbrains IDE is objectively worse, I will take Rider as example (since I use it everyday). We can start with basic things: the contrast, in default settings in dark mode for both. In theses conditions, Rider contrast is too low for a screen you have to stare all the day, compared to VS Code. Commonly used item are in sub menus (in vscode they are sorted by most commonly items on top), common shortcuts requ…

I believe all of them are configurable in Rider, no?

You can also configure the VS Code UX.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#150

Post by sesm »

krick wrote: post #88

Most comments here either praise IDEA-variants as "outstanding", or blame it for being "slow and complicated", both of which feel odd to me (especially the first one). I strongly prefer JetBrains products over anything else, so if it's possible to use PyCharm, I will use PyCharm instead of Vim/VSCode. Yet I cannot imagine calling it outstanding. Maybe, that's just my bad character overall, but I just am surprised why…

JB products have in-memory PSI (as opposed to LSP queried over network), and this PSI by it's nature is multi-language, so they support language injections naturally. This comes in very handy when you are writing an HTML file with embedded CSS and JS, or when you have inline HTML strings or regexps in your code.
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