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Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

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Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#141

Post by nitrogen »

jarek wrote: post #140
learc83 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't follow. There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. It's possible that gun ownership deters crime, but that something else unique to the U.S. is causing more crime than gun ownership is countering. The only thing you could possibly do is to compare parts of the US to each other, and in that case you'll find that locations with stricter gun laws have more gu…

Ah, yes, the U.S. exceptionalism. No other country like it! No one else could have an invasive dominant culture, a disadvantaged minority group, large prosperity divides, and a God-given fear of groups of other people (you call it "government"). Oh well. It's no water off my back if you guys are fine with answering my original question with "nothing" and continuing shooting each other up as price of freedom.

It sounds like the prevalence of gun violence in the US has been significantly overstated in whatever news you have been reading. Taking guns away from communities where violence is rare will not solve the problems with those in which violence is common.

As for US exceptionalism, you left out all the pent up emotional and cultural baggage held by some communities that makes them significantly more violent among themselves than the vast majority.

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#142

Post by learc83 »

jarek wrote: post #140
learc83 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't follow. There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. It's possible that gun ownership deters crime, but that something else unique to the U.S. is causing more crime than gun ownership is countering. The only thing you could possibly do is to compare parts of the US to each other, and in that case you'll find that locations with stricter gun laws have more gu…

Ah, yes, the U.S. exceptionalism. No other country like it! No one else could have an invasive dominant culture, a disadvantaged minority group, large prosperity divides, and a God-given fear of groups of other people (you call it "government"). Oh well. It's no water off my back if you guys are fine with answering my original question with "nothing" and continuing shooting each other up as price of freedom.

>There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture.

American exceptionalism refers to the primarily used meaning of exceptional as "unusually good." I never remotely said that.

America is different, not better. I'd also argue that you can't compare Germany to Spain. Does that mean I think Germany is better?

You also didn't answer my argument. Can you point to another country with comparable history, demography, economy, and culture that has passed a gun ban. Or should I just go ahead and hand over my gun, based on your unsupported fears?

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#143

Post by jarek »

learc83 wrote: post #142
jarek wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, the U.S. exceptionalism. No other country like it! No one else could have an invasive dominant culture, a disadvantaged minority group, large prosperity divides, and a God-given fear of groups of other people (you call it "government"). Oh well. It's no water off my back if you guys are fine with answering my original question with "nothing" and continuing shooting each other up as price of freedom.

>There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. American exceptionalism refers to the primarily used meaning of exceptional as "unusually good." I never remotely said that. America is different, not better. I'd also argue that you can't compare Germany to Spain. Does that mean I think Germany is better? You also didn't answer my argument. Can you point to another country w…

> American exceptionalism refers to the primarily used meaning of exceptional as "unusually good."

I am aware. It's fun to use terms outside of their usual meanings sometimes.

I am not supporting a gun ban in the U.S. I'm asking what y'all wish to do about your crime rate.

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#144

Post by mgarfias »

jevinskie wrote: post #131
mgarfias wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and if you build it yourself (as this person has done), no tax need be paid, no serial # need be applied, and all perfectly legal provided you have not been restricted from purchasing a weapon through normal channels. That is, a felon making a weapon is now a felon-in-possession, where a citizen with full rights making one has not committed a crime.

It is recommended that you do apply a serial number because LEO may incorrectly conclude that the firearm is illegal if they don't see one.

Yes, but there is no requirement to do so. Nor is that serial # available anywhere to look up.

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#145

Post by nsxwolf »

mc32 wrote: post #128
nsxwolf wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that soon you'll be able to just print the guns out at home.

People could --but to what degree of success? A gunsmith, yes, but any yobbo at home? They might fire once, they might explode.

That's why I'm putting it more like 20 years out. Eventually there will be printing technology that will provide the tolerances required for a complete gun that doesn't blow up in your face.

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#146

Post by drhayes9 »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #132
drhayes9 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your thoughtful comment on a touchy issue. That is a good point about the comparison with cars. I have been stepping neatly past the trust idea (which applies to computers as well, and I'm a coder). It's a very powerful idea that I haven't thought about enough. But I think firearms do represent a unique capability: how many bricks per minute can you throw? From how far away could you snipe someone with…

Why? I suspect that you believe that the potential for violence is something that can be separated from a peaceful society, but that isn't the case. More so, I think living within such a worldview is intellectually stunting. In practice we see that private gun ownership is not uniquely dangerous. We see that automobiles are far more dangerous, for example. We see that the overwhelming majority of gun owners are peace…

Thank you for insulting my intelligence. It's funny, I don't feel intellectually stunted. ( =

When I said that the issue was more nuanced, I meant that we shouldn't ban all guns in the U.S. Please do not represent my position as such or assume that I believe that responsible gun owners cannot provide safe play destinations for my children. I grew up in Texas and went on hunting trips every year growing up. Please.

I don't think that it's naive to hope that we can curb our species' trend for violence, and I don't think that the threat of more violence in retribution is that solution long-term. You have a narrative about trusting people with lethal power, but then speak of tides of "murderers, rapists, and thieves" that you want to defend yourself with. It feels like your solution, a well-armed society, is merely stemming the symptom rather than trying to find or address any specific cause. I'm not satisfied with that.

I am not saying that it is guns' fault, by why does the U.S. have one of the highest rates of homicide of any country in the industrialized world?

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#147

Post by Gormo »

learc83 wrote: post #138
jarek wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A gun's primary use for law abiding citizens is that it intimidates things. The most effective way to use a gun is simply to deter crime. A purpose they are quite clearly failing at. So the question is what, if anything, citizens of the U.S.A. wish to do about the fact that, empirically, legality and availability of guns has not resulted in crime rates comparable to comparable states.

That doesn't follow. There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. It's possible that gun ownership deters crime, but that something else unique to the U.S. is causing more crime than gun ownership is countering. The only thing you could possibly do is to compare parts of the US to each other, and in that case you'll find that locations with stricter gun laws have more gu…

> There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture.

To be fair, Canada and Australia are pretty comparable on all counts. The main thing that distinguishes the US from them is scale, and scale has qualitative consequences, among which are the incidence and effects of criminal activity.

As a poster above said, much of the gun-related violence in the US is connected with criminal gangs, particularly those involved in drugs. And the scale of the drug market in the US, combined with the aggressiveness employed by state and federal governments in fighting the 'drug war', accounts for a substantial portion of the gun violence that occurs here.

It's worth noting that despite stereotypes, Canada does have a high rate of gun ownership - ranked 13 in the world, compared to the US, ranked first [1] - and the level of violence there isn't proportional.

[1]: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/200... (PDF link)

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#148

Post by mistercow »

ef4 wrote: post #26

Any competent machinist can make functional semiautomatic weapons. This is just the next step in making it even easier. If the United States ever got serious about banning firearms, a massive homebrew industry would grow up overnight. Gunpowder is not fundamentally harder to make than methamphetamine. People who quite rightly see our drug laws as pointless and ineffective somehow often miss that a gun ban would be no…

>Gunpowder is not fundamentally harder to make than methamphetamine.

I think it's actually considerably easier. If you have saltpeter, sulfur, and charcoal, there isn't even any chemistry involved, and the only one of those ingredients that is remotely plausible (and I'm stretching the term "remotely plausible" here) to regulate the sale of is saltpeter. And even if they went that far, Wikipedia mentions an old process[1] for synthesizing saltpeter using only wood ash, urine, and straw. And your setup isn't even likely to explode or leak poisonous gas into your home in the process.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_nitrate#From_urine

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#149

Post by learc83 »

Gormo wrote: post #147
learc83 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't follow. There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. It's possible that gun ownership deters crime, but that something else unique to the U.S. is causing more crime than gun ownership is countering. The only thing you could possibly do is to compare parts of the US to each other, and in that case you'll find that locations with stricter gun laws have more gu…

> There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. To be fair, Canada and Australia are pretty comparable on all counts. The main thing that distinguishes the US from them is scale , and scale has qualitative consequences, among which are the incidence and effects of criminal activity. As a poster above said, much of the gun-related violence in the US is connected with crimi…

Good points, I agree that the drug war alone is responsible for a large percent of gun violence.

Also our massively larger per capita prison population probably has something to do with it. I doubt people are coming out of prison less violent.

Just a glance at the link you provided, I can't see a link between high gun ownership and murder rate at all.

>Canada and Australia are pretty comparable on all counts.

--comparable history, demography, economy, and culture.

Ignoring the economy, and population size.

Neither one had to deal with slavery on the scale America did.

Neither fought a war for independence or a civil war (the effect of the Civil War and the * massive* death toll can't be discounted. Not to mention the huge increase in gun ownership after the war).

The demographics of both are completely different.

Australians of European descent make up 93% of Australia, according to wikipedia.

As for Canada, they have more asians, who in the US commit less crimes and make more money than average. And they have significantly fewer blacks and hispanics, who in the US commit far more crimes and make less money than average.

Re: Gunsmith Uses 3D Printer To Make A Rifle

#150

Post by learc83 »

jarek wrote: post #143
learc83 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are no comparable states with a comparable history, demography, economy, and culture. American exceptionalism refers to the primarily used meaning of exceptional as "unusually good." I never remotely said that. America is different, not better. I'd also argue that you can't compare Germany to Spain. Does that mean I think Germany is better? You also didn't answer my argument. Can you point to another country w…

> American exceptionalism refers to the primarily used meaning of exceptional as "unusually good." I am aware. It's fun to use terms outside of their usual meanings sometimes. I am not supporting a gun ban in the U.S. I'm asking what y'all wish to do about your crime rate.

>I'm asking what y'all wish to do about your crime rate.

End drug prohibition.

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