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US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

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Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#141

Post by selfhoster »

davidw wrote: post #31
9283409232 wrote: post #3

> The Republican Senator from Missouri Josh Hawley has introduced a new bill that would make it illegal to import or export artificial intelligence products to and from China, meaning someone who knowingly downloads a Chinese developed AI model like the now immensely popular DeepSeek could face up to 20 years in jail, a million dollar fine, or both, should such a law pass. You get less jail time for committing 34 fel…

You get less jail time for an insurrection aimed at overthrowing a free and fair election and beating the shit out of cops while doing so.

[flagged]

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#142

Post by selfhoster »

jameslk wrote: post #131

The bill is political theater and this article is playing into it. A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech. This is not the same circumstance as the law that required TikTok divest of its platform, which was over spying concerns[0]. You can’t spy on Americans when data is kept on US servers. 0. Per the TikTok Supreme Court ruling: https://www.supremecourt.gov/…

> A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech.

Even Google AI said that an LLM is not itself covered under free speech; only the content it produces, which itself is ironic since AI companies stole world copyrighted data to feed into their LLM software machines.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#143

Post by cjonas »

dmix wrote: post #22
ijk wrote: post #7

On the one hand Hawley proposes a lot of things that don't ever get close to becoming law. On the other hand, we did ban TikTok (which is currently unavailable on the app stores because of the ban). I can think of few ways to more effectively destroy any US advantage in AI compared with the sheer efficiency of making it illegal to learn from what competing countries have achieved. From the article, it sounds like the…

Not sure it’s even worth speculating on a bill that’s merely been proposed. This one sounds DOA. But yeah TikTok ban was a very bad precedent, mostly because it was based on speculative risks, not hard proof of existing behaviour (TikTok not engaging didn't help at all either). Regardless of the merits I too hope it doesn’t have a ripple effect. National security is such a huge brush you could paint anything you want…

The risk is obvious and it has nothing to do with privacy... It's the fact that CCP could deliberately alter the algorithm to influence a significant portion of the US in any way they please.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#144

Post by Defletter »

majormajor wrote: post #132
Defletter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is speech. I'm sorry but I have yet to see a single person who makes this point admit that it's a form of speech suppression. This is classic First Amendment precedent. Just because the speaker is someone you don't like, or its content is anti-American (or what have you), doesn't mean it's not protected speech.

What? Many people just don't think the First Amendment applies to foreign nations. (Why would it??) And that restrictions on corporate control/structure for the US-based parts are not speech issues (e.g. imagine if free speech was a defense against an anti-trust prosecution). The simplest case for banning TikTok is simple reciprocity. China is no longer a market that needs the level of protectionism they currently ha…

Let's remind ourselves of what the First Amendment says:

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Constitution does not consider Freedom of Speech a positive right, one that can be granted to some but not others. It is a negative right against the government. It's about as broad and as absolute as you can get. This is why the right also applies to legal entities (eg: companies), even foreign legal entities. It is not limited to citizens, it is not limited to persons.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#145

Post by spondylosaurus »

9283409232 wrote: post #67
gruez wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil vs criminal. Federal sentencing guidelines don't apply.

You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Sentencing is very selective based on who they want to make an example of and when.

https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m

(The graphs in the first tweet are from page 55 of the linked PDF.)

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#146

Post by lenerdenator »

theossuary wrote: post #81
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly, what do you even do as the CCP or some other party that would like to spread anti-American propaganda? Literally just point to the actual, factual state of this country and tell me it isn't a rolling joke.

Thats how most propaganda works. Russia, for example, has been publicizing cases of extreme racism in the US for years to demoralize black people. [1] Hell this has been going on since WWII, when other countries saw how the US treated their black troops, and used it to damage loyalty. [2] Nothing works like the truth, if the US could just stop being so racist it'd be that much harder to divide us. It seems like that'…

The thing that makes it a wedge issue that's useful for propaganda isn't that the US is racist, it's that the US is racist while (ostensibly) aspiring to be more in its creed.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#147

Post by lenerdenator »

inetknght wrote: post #45

> “Every dollar and gig of data that flows into Chinese AI are dollars and data that will ultimately be used against the United States,” Senator Hawley said in a statement. “America cannot afford to empower our greatest adversary at the expense of our own strength. Ensuring American economic superiority means cutting China off from American ingenuity and halting the subsidization of CCP innovation.” Oh goodness me!.…

There's a point to be made that the Chinese don't play by the same set of rules; I don't know why Hawley doesn't just make that point.

Oh, wait, I do know: he's an idiot.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#148

Post by odo1242 »

TZubiri wrote: post #114

Wow what a sensationalist clickbait. The bill says nothing about deepseek. " bill that would make it illegal to import or export artificial intelligence products to and from China" Also it makes importing illegal, which means that you as a consumer wouldn't even be able to run it (ip or dns block).

The bill was specifically introduced because of DeepSeek (words of the congressman) and has the effect of banning DeepSeek.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#149

Post by gruez »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #145
9283409232 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Sentencing is very selective based on who they want to make an example of and when.

https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m (The graphs in the first tweet are from page 55 of the linked PDF.)

>mandatory minimum [...]

Which isn't applicable to the law being proposed. Moreover if the idea is "threaten them with the full 20 years to serve as an example", then the mandatory minimum kinda works against that? If you catch some guy and then he serves 10 years, you haven't really proven much. You're just acting in line with expectations.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#150

Post by lvturner »

rsync wrote: post #137
mikestew wrote: post #2

Guess what I, a person who mere minutes ago had little interest in downloading DeepSeek, am doing right now? Paging Ms. Streisand…

What is a shell one-liner that downloads DeepSeek ?

ollama pull deepseek-r1:671b

Would be one option...

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