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Garmin's –$40B Pivot

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Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#141

Post by notatoad »

infecto wrote: post #46
NoboruWataya wrote: post #14

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

People value things differently but the battery life is always interesting to me. Certainly if I was backwoods hiking I get it but for my day to day I only take it off post workout in the morning as I shower and get ready for the day. It’s charged so quickly that I throw it back on as soon as I am done.

yeah, i've had a garmin and i've had an apple watch. both have their strong points, but the battery life of the apple watch was really just never an issue for me. it seems like it should be an obvious downsite, but it's pretty easy to get in the habit of charging it, and once it is habit its just really not an issue.

if anything, the garmin's battery life was a downside, because i wouldn't charge it daily, and then i'd go to start a bike ride and find it was at 10% battery.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#142

Post by wkat4242 »

film42 wrote: post #115
wkat4242 wrote: post #16

They also provide a lot of EFIS (Electric Flight Information System, or "Glass Cockpit") for small GA aircraft. I think AeroDyne and Honeywell are also in this market but I mainly see Garmin there. Like the G1000 (higher models are available on business jets I think). It's pretty good too, you get a lot of features that were limited to airliners in the past. Like seeing terrain contours around you. Not that I fly IFR…

The C172 with a G1000 setup was around $20/hr more at the local flight school than a C172 with a six pack. Def not needed for X-country but I always felt safer flying it through busy airspace. Garmin really does make fantastic avionics.

Wow $20 more, that's a lot.

At our place they were the same price (though the steam gauge one was a newer type). They still had to have it because some exams require it.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#143

Post by world2vec »

Slightly offtopic but my girlfriend's smartwatch is falling apart and can't stand it anymore. Her birthday is coming soon and was thinking about a Garmin smartwatch. She runs a lot, gym almost everyday. Loves tracking fitness data and workouts but she's petite. Anyone with good recs on what to check?

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#144

Post by scarface_74 »

nightski wrote: post #100
scarface_74 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With my Apple Watch, I don’t need my phone when I’m running, swimming or at the gym. I can receive and return texts, make and receive calls and listen to music either stored on the watch or streamed over cellular.

That's funny, phone related features are the first things I turn off on my Garmin watch when I set it up. The last thing I want is my wrist buzzing off when I am focused lol. In fact, any notifications on my wrist are just flat out obnoxious. I'll take my multiple weeks of battery life for a single charge on the Forerunner 965. The data and analytics are fantastic as well.

There is a “Do not disturb” feature on the Apple Watch.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#145

Post by exabrial »

> But huge R&D investment helped turn the company from an automotive GPS firm to a leader in fitness watches and trackers.

My understanding is the meat and potatoes at Garmin is Aircraft and marine flight instrumentation. Both require an unbelievable amount of [actual] engineering and proof testing, and subsequent certification.

The Automotive GPS was a lucrative market for a brief time, but a pretty big misunderstanding of what the company does at its core.

Fitness trackers was always a market opportunity, and they happen to be really good at it (I've yet to ever run out of battery life on my Garmin Epix Gen2, even after a 5 day expedition using all features and no charging, and using the built-in flashlight at night). They're also pretty ubiquitous in the Bike Computer space.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#146

Post by fiftyfifty »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #14

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

I've been using a Garmin Forerunner GPS watch for years, and what I've found I like the most about it is actually the Garmin Connect app on my phone. I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. Connect is a great application for tracking your workouts over time. A fair number of runners even use Garmin's workout plans from the app. Even compared to running apps exclusively for iOS and Android I think the Garmin app is one of the better ones around, and is free to use with no monthly fees. Combine that with the fact that I don't even have to take my phone with me, I just wear my watch and it syncs with my phone when I get home. Running with a phone sucks, I have yet to find a way to carry one that isn't annoying.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#147

Post by yurlungur »

I used to own one Garmin GPS and replaced it with my cellphone plus a mount. Updating the map was a major pain point.

Now I'm really pleasantly surprised at how good the descent mk3 is which I wear all day and there's also inreach etc. Garmin products are really safe buys when it comes to fitness devices. Other smart watches suffer mostly from the software side whereas Garmin connect syncs well and has good UX.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#148

Post by jpgvm »

jeffbee wrote: post #114
wkat4242 wrote: post #16

They also provide a lot of EFIS (Electric Flight Information System, or "Glass Cockpit") for small GA aircraft. I think AeroDyne and Honeywell are also in this market but I mainly see Garmin there. Like the G1000 (higher models are available on business jets I think). It's pretty good too, you get a lot of features that were limited to airliners in the past. Like seeing terrain contours around you. Not that I fly IFR…

But the margins on that business are not exceptional. Operating income on "outdoor" segment of their business, the one that includes the epix and fenix series watches and so forth, is higher than aviation segment.

Margin isn't everything, it's a very stable business with a very wide technological and regulatory moat. Add to that fierce brand loyalty among pilots and it's a great business IMO.

Personal electronics (unless you are Apple basically) is a pretty fickle business and fortunes can change very rapidly. Aviation? Not so much, unless you chuck a Boeing.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#149

Post by stevesimmons »

gausswho wrote: post #125
MarkusWandel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin…

They may be less gatekeeping than others, but they don't let you get data off the device without a cloud account, at which point all your biometrics are for sale.

Just plug in the Garmin watch to your computer, and its storage opens revealing sensibly named folders. You can open the folder named Activity and copy your sport files in FIT format. Everything else is JSON.

No cloud account needed!

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#150

Post by mceachen »

jmull wrote: post #77
NoboruWataya wrote: post #14

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

From my perspective -- someone who wants the things a smart watch does -- I can't figure out what a Garmin is for. They don't really do the job of a regular smart watch and aren't designed for wearing all the time, so it becomes a secondary device you need to manage and charge separately, not to mention pay for. Meanwhile, an Apple Watch can do all of it. IME, the battery life of Garmin's isn't a game changer... if y…

If you just talk about notifications, the apple watch is better, in that you can reply without pulling out your phone, or even take the voice call, which you can't (at least afaik) on a Garmin.

If you look at Apple watch activity tracking, though, Garmin is playing a different ballgame.

Calorie counting on apple is off by 2-5x (compared to energy output measured on an erg, and running and biking are similarly _really_ incorrect on apple, and in my experience pretty spot-on with Garmin).

Reviewing an activity on apple fitness is really, _really_ coarse. You can't pick what metric is shown on the map. You can't plot a metric over time. Even something as simple as max speed? Who knows!

Apple's attempted copycat of body battery functionality in the new iOS 18 seems like it was designed by a PM that was handed 2-3 screenshots from a Garmin, shrugged, and went from that. It's wholly useless—but on Garmin, this is a valuable feature included 8 years ago in their cheapest running watches.

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