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Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

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Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#141

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

shiomiru wrote: post #57
marginalia_nu wrote: post #25

To be fair, if my search engine is anything to go on, about 0.5-1% of the requests I get are from human sources. The rest are from bots, and not like people who haven't found I have an API, but bots that are attempting to poison Google or Bing's query suggestions (even though I'm not backed by either). From what I've heard from other people running search engines, it looks the same everywhere. I don't know what Googl…

If it's such a common issue, I would've thought Google already ignored searches from clients that do not enable JavaScript when computing results? Besides, you already got auto-blocked when using it in a slightly unusual way. Google hasn't worked on Tor since forever, and recently I also got blocked a few times just for using it through my text browser that uses libcurl for its network stack. So I imagine a botnet us…

I have been web searching using Google from the command line, with no Javascript, for decades. Until last week I never sent a User Agent HTTP header either. After this change I'm still searching from the command line, no Javascript. Thus "requiring Javascript" is not a correct phrase to describe this change. The requirement is a User Agent HTTP header with an approved value. The only difference in searching for me as of the last few days is that I now send a User Agent HTTP header, with an "approved" string.

Javascript does not stop bots. At least it does not stop Googlebot.

IMO, the change is to funnel more people (cf. bots) into seeing AI-generated search results. The "AI" garbage requires Javascript. That is why the spokesperson suggests "degraded" search results for people who are not using Javascript. For me, the results are improved by avoiding the AI garbage, not degraded.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#142

Post by bmacho »

orf wrote: post #23
pluc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no need for JavaScript on a page that has a text input and two buttons and that has worked without JS for three decades. Given Google's reputation for privacy and the constant attempts at selling their users out, it's fair to assume that the reason they're requiring JavaScript is not noble.

> There's absolutely no need for JavaScript on a page that has a text input and two buttons The whole web is evil then. Hacker news has JavaScript for simple upvote buttons, is it also evil?

Hackernews don't require javascript for upvote buttons. They work without it.

BTW hackernews requires javascript for collapsing threads, despite it can be achieved with checkbox/css or with the summary element. The reddit frontend teddit used it, and it worked really well. HN is basically the same as reddit, so it would work really well for HN too.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#143

Post by [deleted] »

KronisLV wrote: post #93
bolognafairy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. But is it evil?

For argument's sake, yes, unironically: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html In contrast, this is less evil: https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ But as usual, nobody really cares because it’s also useful and convenient, even if there’s a bunch of ad crap and fingerprinting and tracking and other stuff, basically taking away more and more control over how you want to consume the contents of a site, sa…

[deleted]

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#145

Post by [deleted] »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #30
jazzyjackson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just fyi the entire browsing and checkout process of Amazon.com works fine without JavaScript, discovering that radicalized me against so called web apps. it just takes actually reading the html spec and maintaining state in the querystring or via session cookie. Latency can be lower than the monstrosities people build with react in the right circumstances.

My phones have had JavaScript off by default for years. I'm amazed by how many sites work fine and are pleasurable to use.

[deleted]

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#146

Post by JohnMakin »

dageshi wrote: post #98
JohnMakin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Shilling for what? I simply observed how these threads always go. The faithful turn up to proudly proclaim how much they don't use google, how they cripple their browsing experience so they may remain pure, to experience the internet as it was intended before the original sin (ads) corrupted it.

“conform, and you will have no further problems from us” makes a lot more sense to me why google called their control plane “borg”

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#147

Post by dageshi »

JohnMakin wrote: post #146
dageshi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shilling for what? I simply observed how these threads always go. The faithful turn up to proudly proclaim how much they don't use google, how they cripple their browsing experience so they may remain pure, to experience the internet as it was intended before the original sin (ads) corrupted it.

“conform, and you will have no further problems from us” makes a lot more sense to me why google called their control plane “borg”

Of course, it's not the huge number of bots attempting to manipulate google which numerous posters on this thread have also run into (they must be shills as well!) necessitating a JS requirement.

No it's google who wants to get their claws into the last 0.000001% of true believers who're dodging their fiendish JS tracking! I'm sure they're salivating at the prospect of the revenue bump that group militant anti-advertisers is going to offer...

We live on an internet where "not conforming" to what an ordinary user looks like makes you look like a bot. Google certainly didn't invent that and definitely doesn't want bots trying to manipulate its services, but by all means continue to "google bad!" while avoiding any and all evidence to the contrary.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#148

Post by Joeri »

ptx wrote: post #68
Joeri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably get it working with declarative shadow dom, streaming in the AI generated content at the end of the html document and slotting it into place. There are no doubt a lot of gotchas but at first glance it seems feasible. Here’s a demo I found of something like that: https://github.com/dgp1130/out-of-order-streaming

The example repo is a little confusing to me, since it seems to use client-side JS to demonstrate that it doesn't need client-side JS: "It bootstraps a service worker and [...] No client-side JavaScript!" But I guess the point is that the code in the service worker could have been on the server instead? The trick seems to be using a template element with a slot and then slotting in the streamed content at the end. Bu…

Doing it with css would only be visual positioning, so would have accessibility issues. Slotted content can have accessibility issues as well, but it is probably more solvable because screen readers will see it “slot in” at the right point in the document.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#149

Post by mike_hearn »

jsnell wrote: post #139
mike_hearn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't lose them revenue. Serving queries is expensive, getting rid of bots yields immediate and direct savings measured in $$$

I was using the word "revenue" very deliberately. Savings don't increase revenue. The GP's argument was that this was about "squeezing out more profit from that supposed 0.1% of users". That can't be an argument about resource savings. The resource savings come from not serving bots, not from blocking legitimate users who happen to have disabled JS.

Sorry, you're right, I didn't read your comment closely enough.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#150

Post by DanielHB »

bythreads wrote: post #36
sideshowb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is the only time in 15 years i've wished hn had a lol react. :D

Why?, iframes are Very much underappreciated

Yeah, the layout would be a bit weird because the iframe would need a fixed height but it would totally work and add no latency for the main search results at all.
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