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BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#141
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up ab…

That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so? That's…

> Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so?

Being rich does not negate all of the issue that people of color face. Class and white privilege are not the same nor mutually exclusive. They are intersectional and related. When a person of color wants to do something to empower other people of color, that doesn't make them a racist. To say that since some people of color are poor means that a program must be for all poor people is a form of moving the goal posts and derailing.

> There are real people who aren't accurately represented by such statistics and making decisions solely on said statistics is unfair to them.

Statistics tell us the same thing people of color do: they are not treated equally and face racial discrimination, micro and macro, all the time. There is a reason why people of color have less access and opportunity to engage in tech.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#142
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. I'm going to tell you a little sec…

>Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. >First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture.

What utter racist drivel is this? In a later comment you get upset by someone equating your position with thinking intelligence with economic status but you are clearly making such a claim here. Well, by and large Asia is a pretty dirt poor continent as well, what do you have to say about that? Do you think Africa just popped into existence recently? There is a whole historical force at work. OK, clearly Africa as continent (I guess we have to ignore Egypt under your view) has done a pretty bad job developing large civilizations/militaries and eventually becoming a world Imperial power. The connection between Haiti and Africa as two "separate" examples is pretty ignorant, do you know how Haiti become populated with all those people? Are familiar with this idea called the slave trade?

>I'm going to tell you a little secret. Black people statistically speaking are intellectually inferior. You don't have to like it, I don't have to like it, the Hacker News zeitgeist doesn't have to like it but it's true.

Prove it. That's a bold claim and linking to a bunch of white supremacist web sites or links to Wikipedia that admit not credibility won't help you prove your argument Herr Doktor. It is not "Hacker News zeitgeist" to say that you are proffering a pretty controversial statement with no evidence in fact is very incidiary. I agree that if there was actual, we should admit, but there is no truth to this notion Herr Doctor.

>The question is, what do you do about that. Do you pretend everybody is the same and give everybody equal opportunity sink or swim? That sounds good in the libertarian utopia but the fact is we live in the real world and if you do that you are going to have a class of people that will never reach parity no matter what happens.

>Left to their own devices, black people are incapable as a group to ever reach the cultural and social level of white and Asian people.

That's just ridiculous. I'm still waiting for the proof.

>That being the case, you can either live with that which is a non-starter unless you want downtown SF look like downtown Johannesburg.

Do you think such phenomena does not exist in white or Asian cultures? If that is the case you are either very naive, ignorant, or have never traveled anywhere but the last is no excuse because apparently you do have the Internet. What you allude to exists in droves among white populations, without question.

>So the only realistic option is to "stack the deck". Everyone that has ever thought about it for more than 5 minutes realizes that this has to happen in order for our mixed society to remain sane. The ivory tower "liberals" understand this far more than you realize and despite the public rhetoric of equality, behind the scenes, the dials are turned to make sure that despite the fact that blacks could never compete on merit, there is just enough stacked in their favor and just subtly enough that they have at least some chance. Thus programs like BlackGirlsCode. >And that's it. I don't like it. I wish blacks were on par intellectually but that just isn't the case and won't be anytime soon so I buy in to this "fix". Give it some thought and you might too.

This is just trash and so are you. Where is the evidence. There is quite the evidence to the contrary. If this was the case why are there so many black PhDs, scientists, etc. Sure, there is not as many for various non-genetic reasons but under your view they shouldn't even exist. How could do they? I mean under your view, perhpas there could be ONE because I guess you'd argue that person would be like strange anomaly but there are clearly more than that. It's ridiculous. In fact, we don't even need to point to PhDs and other scientists, because you are arguing blacks are intellectually inferior. Have you ever met a black a person other than when you might be running scared from crackheads in downtown San Francisco? There are white crackheads to you know.

>BTW, before you get too far off on your own superiority remember that Ashkenazi jews (Einstein, etc.) are statistically a fifth to a full standard deviation above the average in mathematical and verbal IQ tests. Ever wonder why something like 50 percent of the nobel prizes go to them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence

You make a bad argument for intelligence when you seem to be unable to read and comprehend your own Wikipedia links. Ever read your own Wikipedia links? There is nothing contained that article that amounts to anything scientific other than some vague references to a cultural tradition of close study and scholarship as well as increased economic position.

Do you think a complete lack of anything resembling science does not matter as long as your point is a racist one?

>Bye bye Karma.

Stop projecting.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#143
post #13

I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad. I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in V…

My father had some bad experiences with "La Raza" in the 60s because back then it really was race politics. Today my wife and I participate in a lot of their arts programs even though I look as white as Martha Stewart.

I imagine that if a hispanic girl were to ask to join this program, she would not be told no. It'd be an interesting experiment. On the other hand this looks like a privately-funded venture so they are free to do what they wish.

I have a dog in this fight because I give away copies of my book to clubs like this. I have noticed that the girls clubs are a lot more organized and get press, which worries me a bit. But helping someone is better than helping no one.

Have you a suggestion for how I can reach out to more kinds of people?

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#144
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old studies show that intelligence is largely genetic. New studies are increasingly showing that it is much, much, more influenced by environment. This isn't reddit, so nobody can downvote you. You know what you said was offensive, but you probably don't know that what you said is completely, absolutely scientifically inaccurate. I could answer this with data, but instead I'll be anecdotal. It's not scientific, but i…

"New studies are increasingly showing that it is much, much, more influenced by environment." Let me translate: we have a socially responsible conclusion now let's design a study that produces it. "This isn't reddit, so nobody can downvote you." When you get karma over 150, you will see a little arrow pointing down next to each comment. "You know what you said was offensive, but you probably don't know that what you…

Where are your studies that show that black children that grow up in actual middle class homes in non-impoverished communities do substantially worse than their white counter parts? By your position they should be as illiterate as those in deep poverty.

This is a key point. You are completely dismissing environmental factors. So therefore, under your ridiculous argument we should see no significant difference between the supposed "intellectual inferiority" of black people between those two groups. How could there be? You have stated that would be done clearly because it is genetic. However, your case now fails completely.

You're just a racist and you want to proffer your position in a way that tries to make fun of those that agree with your racism as either being naive or "liberal fools" or whatever. But it is you that are deceived.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#145
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so? That's…

"There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty." Sure, but just by being another race, there is very little if any chance for non-white males to do certain things. A feel-good story like Jim Carrey would NEVER happen for a Asian male in America. Heck there was even a survey that found women estimate Asian men would need to earn about $200k to have the same 'status' as a white male. So yes, while being p…

I've heard my Asian friends make similar remarks about a lack of Asians in Hollywood. I see it as mainly a consequence of the fact that A. they don't traditionally view acting as a noble or lucrative career path and B. they only make up a small percentage of the population (4.5%)

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. I'm going to tell you a little sec…

>Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. >First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. What utter racist drivel is this…

"What utter racist drivel is this?"

Yes, I'm expecting some real intelligent debate outta this one.

"In a later comment you get upset by someone equating your position with thinking intelligence with economic status but you are clearly making such a claim here."

I see just like the other guy reading comprehension isn't your strong point.

"do you know how Haiti become populated with all those people? Are familiar with this idea called the slave trade?"

Slavery and colonialism ended in Haiti a long time ago but lets keep making excuses. Have you considered the possibility that using historical happenings as a crutch might be part of the reason real progress isn't being made in Haiti? What if the Asians who suffered on the railroads in 19th century US made the same types of excuses? What about Indians that suffered under British rule? Kurds in Iraq? And on and on.

I'm sorry, I'm done with debating you idiots for one day. This has become a time sink into collective delusion and willful ignorance. Buh bye.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"New studies are increasingly showing that it is much, much, more influenced by environment." Let me translate: we have a socially responsible conclusion now let's design a study that produces it. "This isn't reddit, so nobody can downvote you." When you get karma over 150, you will see a little arrow pointing down next to each comment. "You know what you said was offensive, but you probably don't know that what you…

Where are your studies that show that black children that grow up in actual middle class homes in non-impoverished communities do substantially worse than their white counter parts? By your position they should be as illiterate as those in deep poverty. This is a key point. You are completely dismissing environmental factors. So therefore, under your ridiculous argument we should see no significant difference between…

"Where are your studies that show that black children that grow up in actual middle class homes in non-impoverished communities do substantially worse than their white counter parts? By your position they should be as illiterate as those in deep poverty.

This is a key point. You are completely dismissing environmental factors.

You're just a racist"

I'm going to stop quoting right there because you are mistaken. Only in your own absurd caricature of me that you've created do I completely discount environmental factors. Of course children of any race, all things being equal, will statistically thrive better in a stable environment. That doesn't discount hereditary factors though which are also very important. There are lots of rigorous scientific studies that support the existence of hereditary intelligence and that it is typically lower in blacks. I realize there is a certain amount of "controversy" among psychometrists in the area of white vs black intellect but a great deal of it is political and manufactured. People like you that scream "racist blah blah" are the ones that stunt science and progress but go on and make me out to be your boogeyman and twist my words how you want so that you don't have to consider what I'm saying. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#148
post #53
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

I understand where the GP is coming from. Teaching kids to code is an absolutely nice thing to do. But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? They'll be turned away? To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion etc. In many educational institutions, huge percentage of seats are reserv…

FYI, Hispanics were present at the workshops. It should be called "Minority Girls Code", but I still think this name is better and its too late to change it. If a white girl came, I doubt they would be turned away. Men definitely would, as girls demure easily with boys in the room when it comes to tech.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females. The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply. >If calling the group "Black Girls Can Code" allows the group to raise more money... By this logic you are OK with a group called "Whi…

> The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply. I don't know why you're having trouble understanding this. This stuff is pretty basic to understand. Your view is childish and pedantic. "Wah realizing there are social mores in effect in the real world is just segregation." > By this logic you are OK with a grou…

>This stuff is pretty basic to understand.

Well then help me...

>Your view is childish and pedantic.

Ad hominem, not helpful.

>No, I think there are qualitative social implications that we all recognize

Emphasis mine. Like what? Black people are poor, so they get a pass? Is that what you mean? Jesus, just say it.

>But I do think having groups as you suggested is a good idea but I think the naming of them should pay attention to social realities.

What are your version of social realities? You say this shit with a wink and a nod...You know blacks are poor, asians are good with numbers, jews are good with money, whites are oppressors, and gays speak with a lisp. Are these the "social realities" you speak of?

For the love of god, stop being so vague and just say what you mean. For instance, the following is my exact feeling on this matter.

There are only two non-bigoted positions to have on this issue. One, it's OK for people to segregate private groups by race, gender, etc... Or, two, its not OK at all. Any position in between can only be justified by relying on stereo types.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#150
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I may have read "all colored girls" rather than "girls of all colors" but mostly it doesn't seem to make sense to call your organization BlackGirlsCode and have race be completely irrelevant. Why bring it up at all? It's encouraging race discrimination either way.

also consider my other comment http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=4262854 and understand that taking issue with the name, is precisely race discrimination. You'd feel better if it wasn't racial so you are almost certainly withholding support because it is racially identified. That's a self-contradicting position and the only way I can understand what you mean when you say it encourages race discrimination – because…

It encourages race discrimination because it furthers the idea that race is a category that we should use to group and identify people. It has nothing to do with me personally.

They are, by their own name, discriminating based on race. Even if it is for a positive goal. The problem is that it reinforces race as a significant distinguishing category when it should not be. Many other categories are far more significant. Like income level. In general, a very poor black girl and very poor white girl will have much more in common than a very poor black girl and a very rich black girl.

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