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Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

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Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#141

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

oneshtein wrote: post #105
alex1138 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lab leak matters when studying viral transmission (and general characteristics of the virus), especially if it's been enhanced via gain of function research It also matters when the basic doctor-patient relationship is interfered with

If we look at final report of Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic: COVID-19 ORIGIN: COVID-19 most likely emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. The FIVE strongest arguments in favor of the “lab leak” theory include: 1) The virus possesses a biological characteristic that is not found in nature. Yes. 2) Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single introduction into humans. This runs contrary t…

I think many of those points are pretty flimsy. But even if they weren't I don't know how you get to your conclusion.

That part of the world has a biolab doing gain of function research on that kind of virus because that part of the world has had problems with that kind of virus in the past. It receives finding from other countries because now that we know the source of the threat it makes sense to study it on the correct side of the world.

Zoonotic diseases are ecosystems' hedge against diversity loss and Chinas rapid growth in the last 50y has put a strain on local species such that it has activated twice before. They'd be negligent not to be attempting to prepare for a third event. Maybe they went too far in their strategy, maybe they screwed up in their containment practices, but 99-100% of this this is a nature-made weapon.

Maybe a lab managed to carve their initials into it somewhere. But we're never going to get good information about whether that's the case. Yet we're still all amped about that maybe-1% even though there's a lot of other things we could learn from here--things which nobody has any reason to spread misinformation about, and which could prevent a lot of hardship.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#142

Post by orwin »

friendzis wrote: post #138
friend_Fernando wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the legitimate studies that did not find masks to be effective had glaring omissions, such as adherence to guidelines. Would you wear the mask properly or let it droop? E.g. from https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8499874/ Results: When the adherence to mask usage guidelines is taken into account, the empirical evidence indicates that masks prevent disease transmission: all studies we analysed that did not…

Paradoxically, from public health perspective that does not matter. If you study efficacy of masks, adherence to masking protocols is absolutely crucial variable to control. However, if you study efficiency of masking mandates, you do not get the luxury of controlling masking protocols and *have* to take adherence to masking protocols as population parameter. As expected, studies where actual adherence is in the gutt…

This exactly my thinking.

I'm still wearing a mask when I have a cold though, especially in public transportation.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#143

Post by ducdetronquito »

wkat4242 wrote: post #128
ducdetronquito wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah me too, I could not stand it. I do agree with you ! Focusing on being healthy is in my opinion way more beneficial to avoid being sick in general than trying to avoid being sick at all cost. Being stacked by millions in cities living unhealthy lives is definitely not helping to prevent being sick. I move to the country side after the last lock down, ~50km from a big city to still be close to work, and it's been…

Oh yeah I love living in the city. Drinking and partying in clubs with hundreds of people in a tiny place (so masks really won't help anyway) until 6am. My life is not very healthy I know, but it's very exciting which is also important. There was a commercial in Holland saying "If you have to watch your life flash before your eyes one day, you'd better make sure it's not going to be boring!". I subscribe to that, alt…

I subscribe to that too!

If your enjoy your time that's more than enough to continue doing what you do :D

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#144

Post by wrp »

sfblah wrote: post #24
dailykoder wrote: post #14

I still desperately want to know the current (scientific) state of wearing a mask. On the one side we have people that say 'our bodies need to learn again to fight against viruses' and the other side which wants you to put on a mask even if you have the smallest sign of a common cold. - Though, I do understand the fear of people who have/had long covid, MCFS or do know people who have, but I don't know what conclusio…

My advice is to look at studies done before 2020 when it became political. My research suggests that, while masks probably do something, it's very hard to measure the exact impacts. The prevailing wisdom before 2020 was that masking the public for viruses didn't do anything. For medical professionals, very strict masking protocols were needed to get any assurance of safety.

> look at studies done before 2020 when it became political.

Good advice and easy to do. Just use your favorite source to find review articles. You don't need to read many, as conclusions were quite uniform.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#145

Post by disambiguation »

dailykoder wrote: post #14

I still desperately want to know the current (scientific) state of wearing a mask. On the one side we have people that say 'our bodies need to learn again to fight against viruses' and the other side which wants you to put on a mask even if you have the smallest sign of a common cold. - Though, I do understand the fear of people who have/had long covid, MCFS or do know people who have, but I don't know what conclusio…

The only science you need to know is: the disease can't spread if you don't breathe it onto someone.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#146

Post by [deleted] »

modeless wrote: post #45
dailykoder wrote: post #14

I still desperately want to know the current (scientific) state of wearing a mask. On the one side we have people that say 'our bodies need to learn again to fight against viruses' and the other side which wants you to put on a mask even if you have the smallest sign of a common cold. - Though, I do understand the fear of people who have/had long covid, MCFS or do know people who have, but I don't know what conclusio…

> our bodies need to learn again to fight against viruses This is unequivocally false. There is zero benefit to exposure to almost all viruses that infect humans. At best you would get sick and then have limited immunity to that single strain for a period of time, but getting sick is always worse than not getting it. You're not going to get immunity to the flu by "exercising" your immune system with colds or vice ver…

[deleted]

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#147

Post by wrp »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #85
dailykoder wrote: post #14

I still desperately want to know the current (scientific) state of wearing a mask. On the one side we have people that say 'our bodies need to learn again to fight against viruses' and the other side which wants you to put on a mask even if you have the smallest sign of a common cold. - Though, I do understand the fear of people who have/had long covid, MCFS or do know people who have, but I don't know what conclusio…

I really depends on the masks. The cloth masks with a couple of layers aren't very effective because Covid is airborne in the sense the particles of liquid it persists in are typically 1-5nm in size and hang on the air and it survives for hours like that depending on the conditions. We know that N95/99/FFp2/3 standards block this very well and a number of studies done in places like a hospital in Cambridge showed the…

Not arguing but would appreciate sources regarding N95 masks. When I reviewed the literature in 2020, there was no solid evidence that their use led to improved outcomes, even in clinical settings.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#148

Post by kmacleod »

wrp wrote: post #144
sfblah wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice is to look at studies done before 2020 when it became political. My research suggests that, while masks probably do something, it's very hard to measure the exact impacts. The prevailing wisdom before 2020 was that masking the public for viruses didn't do anything. For medical professionals, very strict masking protocols were needed to get any assurance of safety.

> look at studies done before 2020 when it became political. Good advice and easy to do. Just use your favorite source to find review articles. You don't need to read many, as conclusions were quite uniform.

When I did the pre-2020 deep-dive I found the studies to be uniformly about the mechanics of the mask (hole size and particle size) and therefore the conclusions uniform on that front.

It was only after 2020 that any studies were done on effectiveness in use. The results are a lot more positive there. However, it was still difficult to do controlled studies so the results aren't as strong as one would like.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#149

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

NicholasGurr wrote: post #92
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #57

It's disappointing to see how comments on this topic always center around whether masking worked or not and whether it was a lab leak or not. These just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things. It's like we got in a car crash and instead of taking about how we can be safer drivers we're debating which brand of crutches is best. I wish we'd zoom out a bit and look for some more impactful questions to ask.…

I found Klaus Schwab’s HN burner account! > let’s modify peoples’ genes and make them eat bugs

It's the viral genome that I'm proposing we target. Specifically, we should cut it in half so it doesn't work anymore. That's is how CRISPR works in nature: for modifying the threat, not modifying oneself. It would be much simpler to make vaccines this way. It could happen fast enough to make a difference.

The only part of the human genome that would need to change for this is the one that puts the scissors (CAS-9) in place for later use. I suppose since we'd have them lying around we might later want to use them for more invasive gene therapies which do target the human genome, but that would be a separate decision for a later date.

As for the diet part... if nature is going to force our hand here one way or another, we might as well handle things on our own terms. Or maybe nature isn't going to. But that's the kind of thing a scientist would study in the wake of a pandemic if we weren't all so toxic about it. Maybe we'll be more interested in prevention after there are a few more of these and COVID starts looking like the warning shot that we ignored.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#150

Post by Izkata »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #124
reify wrote: post #111

I also questioned the vialibily of face masks early on in the the covid scare.. I have grown mushrooms at home for many years and to prevent contamination entering my grain bags and jars, I have to use an extremely fine filters. I use a Microppose Synthetic Filter Discs which have a 99.97% Filtration efficiency down to 0.22μm (microns). The standard face mask is 0.3μm and is 95% efficient at 0.3 microns. This means t…

You might benefit from a more robust understanding of filtration mechanisms and updating your mental model of airborn covid to include the medium in which it's broadcast. Folks aren't outgassing raw virii with no associated droplet material, so your particle size is off. Additionally N95 can absolutely filter particulate well below the rated 0.3 microns, it's just less effective at doing so. Summary: masks absolutely…

I don't think that matters. We exhale so much moisture that cloth masks are saturated in 10-15 minutes, and after that the air pressure just recreates the droplets as it goes through the mask, spreading it from the outside.
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