There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#141

Post by Cthulhu_ » Fri, Dec 20, 2024, 7:54 AM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #133

n4r9 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably the business is aiming for Paying Customers, not necessarily Happy ones :)

I chose happy for a reason :) So the business is chasing profits. In the short term that means customers paying money - any will do (happy or unhappy). But in the long term, happy is the key. Happy customers are the single biggest marketing tool you have. Happy customers promote and recommend you. Unhappy customers do the opposite (and are more effective at doing so.) So, if the metric stops at Customers then you are…

> Happy customers are the single biggest marketing tool you have. Happy customers promote and recommend you. Unhappy customers do the opposite (and are more effective at doing so.)

And yet, there's some irrational counter examples; there's video games that has huge detractors while having huge financial success. Negative reviews on Steam, "4000 hours played". The metrics say they aren't happy with the product... but they still play it, talk about it, may have pulled in friends to play it, and spend money on it.

People can be unhappy about a product but still pay and promote it, counter-intuitively. Of course, the unhappiness is what they say, their behaviour says otherwise so for the sake of the metrics they would be considered happy I suppose?

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#142

Post by bovermyer » Fri, Dec 20, 2024, 12:06 PM UTC

deepsun wrote: post #132

bovermyer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. I disagree completely, of course. I imagine our backgrounds are wildly different.

Yes, seems like it. I grew up in USSR, and now appreciate capitalism a lot. Same thing with democracy by the way: yes it's a bad and stupid system, but I've seen the alternative. Many people expect democracy to make ideal and fair decisions, while I see it as just a protection against the most egregious and blatant violations. E.g. the US has "Deficient democracy" rating (only two parties), but it's still infinitely…

I grew up in a combination of the USA and New Zealand, so I was raised in democracy of multiple varieties. The US's version is nowhere near as good as NZ's.

Political systems don't define my worldview, though; they largely exist in the background for me. This is probably because I've never had to worry about a political system killing me before. Trump's ascendancy may change that, but for the time being, it's still just noise.

Capitalism and whatever variation of communism that the USSR had are not the only ways to organize society. Even the USA doesn't have pure capitalism; if it did, there would be no government regulations whatsoever.

Given that, I'm curious about why you focus on currency as such a central driving metric for everything. I don't believe it's just because of political background. What else might make money so important for you?

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#143

Post by fellowniusmonk » Fri, Dec 20, 2024, 5:35 PM UTC

Rury wrote: post #46

Buttons840 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the output, the singular goal, always money? (As sad as that may be.)

Money is just a means to obtain goods and services. So no... money isn't really the goal.

Money isn't the goal.

It's much more important.

It's both the measure, the scale, the environment, and the terms of exchange.

It's the simplest globally agreed on proxy for the transmission of everything that exists.

Thus money is a proxy for everything no matter how abstract or concrete, freedom, self determination, the ability to bring complex things in your imagination to fruition by enlisting the help of others.

Money is nothing but...

If I was a fish, money would be my water and my gills.

Language & Communication itself is even less than money, it's just air vibrating or scribbles on paper, it has no purpose or meaning but what we give it.

It's also the fundamental operating system and protocol of both individuals and humanity.

Money is the knot that cannot be untied.

Goodhart's law is everywhere and in all things.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#144

Post by fellowniusmonk » Fri, Dec 20, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

deepsun wrote: post #129

Buttons840 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly? Who first said money was the root of all evil?

> The phrase "money is the root of all evil" is a common saying that originates from the Bible, specifically 1 Timothy 6:10, which actually states "For the love of money is the root of all evil," meaning it's not money itself that is evil, but the excessive desire for it and the actions people might take to acquire wealth that can lead to negative consequences like greed and unethical behavior. We in our company don'…

1 Timothy 6:10.

Kinds. All Kinds.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#145

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:13 AM UTC

cjensen wrote: post #114

fulafel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the definition. Eg https://www.britannica.com/money/productivity says: "productivity, in economics, the ratio of what is produced to what is required to produce it. Usually this ratio is in the form of an average, expressing the total output of some category of goods divided by the total input of, say, labour or raw materials."

It's implied in the definition. Consider the units: a ratio should not have units. Lines of code per programmer per day would have weird units, for example, and could not be compared against number of windows installed per day for per car window installer. The only way for productivity to be useful is to normalize the inputs and outputs into money.

[deleted]