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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#141

Post by droopyEyelids »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

I’m one of the people that did not renew BlueCruise and the reason is kind of weird

BlueCruise vehicles were updated with the most sophisticated driver attention system ive ever seen. It will complain in less time than it takes me to change a radio station.

Before that update, I was enjoying the automated driving a little bit too much, and using it to take liberties with my attention in the car. That was awesome as a user experience.

After the update, I am paying more attention to the road than I did when I was driving a manual. There is no benefit to being able to take my hands off the steering wheel. That’s a good thing for safety, but it means that “level 2.5” driving (or whatever) adds zero marginal utility.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#142

Post by throwaway48476 »

dgfitz wrote: post #58
floxy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing that trend in this data: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA ...maybe you are meaning something more specific?

I think the brave throwaway48476 doesn’t have a source.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DAUPSA

This had the slope I remember.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#143

Post by tapoxi »

FloorEgg wrote: post #99
axus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Tesla service worse than the dealerships? Maybe things have changed, my opinion is completely based on what I've read on the Internet.

[flagged]

Similarly, there's a lot of pro-Tesla propaganda by those who own shares in Tesla. I avoid this by not considering Tesla when considering a car, as the truth is too murky.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#144

Post by FredPret »

Filligree wrote: post #139

I'm not sure I want autonomous vehicles to work. It would, inevitably, lead to more cars in cities. Probably faster cars. Both are the opposite of what we need; it isn't just about safety.

Who decides "what we need"?

I say "we" do - ie, if people want to buy autonomous cars, then that's what's going to happen.

Incidentally if there's a large number of autonomous cars available in a fluid and efficient market, that would probably mean fewer people need cars in total.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#145

Post by adrr »

porphyra wrote: post #128
jefftk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist. It depends how you look at it, but in the (super limited) cases where you can use Mercedes Drive Pilot you can legally and safely read a book, watch a movie, or work while in the driver's seat. [1] That's not the case with any Tesla product. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot

The MB Drive Pilot only works at ridiculously low speeds (under 40 mph), on select highways, no sharp turns, no weather, no construction zones, lanes clearly visible, etc. It's laughable to compare it against FSD which works everywhere. FSD has been flawless when driving on such easy conditions for years.

FSD isn't driving though, you're driving. Mercedes is driving itself and you have 10 seconds to takeover. Huge difference between level 3 and level 2. One is self driving and one is just a drivers aid.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#146

Post by blahgeek »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

> Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex?

Global-wise, there are also a few Chinese companies in the robotaxi market. Pony.ai and WeRide both recently went in public market.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#148

Post by adrr »

jaimex2 wrote: post #120
boshalfoshal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercruise might be comparable to Tesla's "Autosteer" product but its incomparable to Tesla's paid "FSD Supervised" product. The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist.

It's not even close between Tesla and Waymo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv9HtWUf27s Arguably this is Waymo in its "home turf"

Tesla can't self drive in any condition on any street. Hard to compare that to a level 4 company where the car can go hundreds of thousands of miles without disengagement. Being a owner FSD, its no where near being able to drive itself without supervision, it tries to run reds, misses people in cross walks and can't understand signs like "Do Not Enter".

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#149

Post by dangus »

schiffern wrote: post #133
margalabargala wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. That was a your-dealership issue, not a GM issue. GM doesn't run the dealerships (though they sure have plenty of influe…

That's a "GM's business model" problem, which is again a GM problem. The top-selling EV maker in the US doesn't have any dealerships, so clearly it's not an insurmountable problem. GM just hasn't prioritized surmounting it.

To be fair to GM, Tesla basically had to be a brand new auto company and work through a whole bunch of legal loopholes and battles just to have their direct sales model. GM and the rest of the legacy automakers are essentially bound to the dealership system and the dealerships represent a much larger lobbying base than the automakers themselves.

We are seeing this play out with VW’s attempt to direct-sell Scout vehicle's and immediately getting challenged/sued by dealerships over it. [1]

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2024-10-25/...

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#150

Post by mensetmanusman »

schiffern wrote: post #133
margalabargala wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. That was a your-dealership issue, not a GM issue. GM doesn't run the dealerships (though they sure have plenty of influe…

That's a "GM's business model" problem, which is again a GM problem. The top-selling EV maker in the US doesn't have any dealerships, so clearly it's not an insurmountable problem. GM just hasn't prioritized surmounting it.

Business model enforced by the government.
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