Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

theconversation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 187 posts

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#141

Post by EricE »

bdangubic wrote: post #131
mckn1ght wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you understand. Per your other comment: > it is cost of doing business and you can’t pass that shit off to customers What do you think prices are? They are the costs to the business plus some profit margin. Visa is passing their costs down to their customers too. Businesses are completely within their right to pass the CC charges on to customers. It becomes the customers’ cost of doing business with the…

That's all fine - businesses can be within their right to do whatever they please. However, myself and myriad of other people will simply go elsewhere where we are not charged different for the same product/service depending on the method of payment we choose :)

And you will pay more. Local gas station beats Costco by $0.10 a gallon if you pay cash. Which I happily do.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#142

Post by 0xCMP »

cadamsau wrote: post #130
Two4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

There’s thousands of different tax regimes in the US - dozens to hundreds in every state, thanks to city taxes and the like. All businesses would need to advertise the right price everywhere. Doesn’t scale. It’d be neat to see a campaign to popularize a term like “final price” or “all-in price”. It’d encourage the creation of products that always show the right price even as taxes change. And consumers would be empow…

I have heard this before, and I get the sentiment, but a supermarket usually already prices things for the local area. The same company in different location can have different prices for the same exact thing. So companies can already handle localized pricing. They just use it for their advantage and hide the cost of taxes.

Other countries handle this fine. It really isn't any more complicated than properly collecting the sale taxes already. Just decide the price of a thing and add the tax then show the final price. You could also, which is something I saw done in Japan, show the Tax Free price so it's easier to compare.

But I kind of don't buy that it would actually much harder than any other hard thing supermarkets do to put the full price on a jug of milk or etc.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#143

Post by rootusrootus »

EricE wrote: post #139
thejazzman wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. Let the scoundrels advertise whatever prices they want, it's the consumers fault for being exploited! /s

All you have to do is look at the receipt.

Perhaps some people would like to know how much they are going to spend before they spend it.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#144

Post by LiquidSky »

cadamsau wrote: post #130
Two4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

There’s thousands of different tax regimes in the US - dozens to hundreds in every state, thanks to city taxes and the like. All businesses would need to advertise the right price everywhere. Doesn’t scale. It’d be neat to see a campaign to popularize a term like “final price” or “all-in price”. It’d encourage the creation of products that always show the right price even as taxes change. And consumers would be empow…

>There’s thousands of different tax regimes in the US - dozens to hundreds in every state, thanks to city taxes and the like. All businesses would need to advertise the right price everywhere. Doesn’t scale.

Of course it does. Seeing this excuse in 2024 is absurd. It has nothing to do with actual difficulty, businesses just don't want to have to do it.

Businesses should be required to say in general advertisements "product/service is $X + local applicable taxes". When you go to make your individual purchase they would then be required to show the actual total price you will be paying. Maybe include a breakdown if people want it.

Creates a burden for businesses to comply? Too fucking bad, that's the cost of being allowed to do do business.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#145

Post by rootusrootus »

quickthrowman wrote: post #133
jghn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them. It’s annoying because they could price it in up front. A restaurant bill looks like a utility bill these days with all of the line item charges, just include the damn fees in the price of food!

It'll be like cell phone bills, in particular the post-paid variety. I have a line that is using Consumer Cellular, and the plan is ostensibly $20/month. The actual bill is $28.02. Insanity.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#146

Post by rootusrootus »

jghn wrote: post #64
FireBeyond wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?" Assuming the service charge was even 15%, for it to be $100 more than you thought it would be, your bill would be $600+ (simplifying for taxes)... I don't go out for $600 dinners that often, though I have. And that being said, I do think tipping does bring out some less sensic…

To be fair, by "more than once" I meant 2-3 times, not a regular occurrence. :) The last time it happened was ~300 + 20% service charge + a tip that'd have been in the low-mid 20's. That works out to be a bit under $100. It started to bug me on the walk home, and I double checked the receipt. I don't like scrutinizing receipts but I've started to do it a bit more. > why should the server get five times more for servi…

> The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that the kind of place where one is buying a $100 bottle of wine has a higher degree of training, care, etc involved.

What if the restaurant serves both $20 and $100 bottles? Do they adjust the quality of service on the fly to make pouring the $20 bottle profitable? Offer extra labor-intensive services only available with the purchase of the $100 bottle?

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#147

Post by rootusrootus »

Two4 wrote: post #125
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

Because the US does not have a particularly powerful federal government and these sorts of decisions are left to the States. In my state our prices are advertised at the total cost to the consumer. But this is pretty easy because we do not have a sales tax. Every jurisdiction makes different choices.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#148

Post by kelipso »

britzkopf wrote: post #95
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, this is true. In effect, however, it often is not.

How does this rule get circumvented?

Waiters getting fired (or some other consequences) if they don't make the minimum wage through tips.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#149

Post by TheDong »

bdangubic wrote: post #107
do_not_redeem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your arguments are: 1. Visa/MC should be allowed to overcharge and we should all accept it because Visa/MC said so in their contracts. 2. You like using credit cards, and things that you personally like should be free in 2024, and other people should pay extra to subsidize your personal preferences. I'm not convinced. I don't think your personal preferences will be enough to reverse the trend of businesses chargin…

1. yes 2. never said that. usage of credit cards should 100% NOT be free. the businesses should however offer it and pay whatever that costs

> the businesses should however offer it and pay whatever that costs

So, in other words, you're in favor of a minor tax on those worse off than you, with poor credit score or otherwise can't get a credit card, so that you don't have to think about how your credit card company is ripping the merchant off.

If the business doesn't write that "3% for credit card users" down, and 90% of their customers use credit cards, their logical next step is to instead increase the price of all items by 2.7%, which lets you save a minor amount of money by screwing over those who are worse off.

If you just actively want to worsen the life of poorer people for your own benefit, well, I guess you're at least on the right site for it. May I recommend applying for the YC spring batch.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#150

Post by JohnFen »

I have certainly reduced my patronage at places where there is pressure to tip, including those tip prompts.

Tipping was already an obnoxious aspect of US culture before, and it has become much worse. Increasingly, it's just not worth putting up with it.

Post reply on HN