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Performance improvement plans are on the rise

wsj.com

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Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#141

Post by therealdrag0 »

Plasmoid wrote: post #140
therealdrag0 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s multiple people in the comments of this post alone who have self exited a pip. And I know at least one in person myself. What’s common sense is that Common sense doesn’t mean much, people often draw false conclusions from narrow sample sizes among other fallacious beliefs and reasonings. Asking for a source should always be acceptable by anyone who has an allegiance to truth. Let’s be honest with each other.

There is going to be a fair amount of selection bias in pip announcing they beat a pip. Getting fired isn't fun and so people won't brag about it. There are also other comments in this thread about people being pip'ed dishonestly. So people's experience will fall into a few categories: * People who are not doing well * People where the expectations of the job are (honestly) different between employee and employer. *…

Absolutely, that’s why it’d be interesting to have an actual study about it. Otherwise it’s just runaway speculation, and all we can say is there are many companies and managers and they all work differently and your experiences may vary.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#142

Post by kingbiz »

kareiva wrote: post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

Does management ever get PIP'd? In my experience its lowly ICs that take the brunt of PIP culture.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#143

Post by bsder »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #97
MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #14

> “A lot of the time, they’re done,” Gadea said of underperformers. “They’re burned out, they need a break. And now you’re asking them to work harder.” I've seen that once, most recently. Before that, it was somebody who was trying to get let go on performance grounds, thinking that it would lead to severance (didn't work out). Before that, it was somebody who got put on PIP, but I'm not sure why, and they were perso…

Why just fire them? As you showed they can “just quit” if they don’t want to play ball, and some people want to have the opportunity to play ball.

> Why just fire them?

Legal ass covering--especially if the employee is a minority.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#144

Post by giantrobot »

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #14

> “A lot of the time, they’re done,” Gadea said of underperformers. “They’re burned out, they need a break. And now you’re asking them to work harder.” I've seen that once, most recently. Before that, it was somebody who was trying to get let go on performance grounds, thinking that it would lead to severance (didn't work out). Before that, it was somebody who got put on PIP, but I'm not sure why, and they were perso…

> Telling somebody that they're fucking up and that they need to improve is one thing,

In my experience it's management telling the employee they're fucking up when in reality it was management fucking up the whole time. Unrealistic schedules, untenable goals, poor/no feedback or guidance, or just actively burning the employee out. Management then uses the PIP to fire the employee without a lawsuit.

There's never a good faith position of management with PIPs. They're for their benefit and never the employee's benefit.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#145

Post by Spivak »

ambicapter wrote: post #101
firesteelrain wrote: post #76

From reading the comments, people must work at places who use a lot of PIPs. It is an actual documented process at my large employer but I know if anyone got put on one then they would freak out. Probably go nuclear rather than improve. Managers are afraid to put people on them.

Sounds like a very emotionally-stable place to work lol.

At the systems level it seems like a stable outcome. Workers don't want to be put on PIPs so if they react in a manner totally opposite what the manager wants and treat them as being fired then they cease to be effective. Managers now have to address performance problems without them or just fire them.

The kind of professional stoicism being advocated for actually makes you easy to mistreat. I feel so bad for my Gen X coworkers who seem to be conditioned that this is the only way to be and seem to have no concept of when they deserve better.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#146

Post by linotype »

makk wrote: post #88

I'm pretty happy with how PIPs work. The first and last time I was put on a PIP I went into early retirement the next day. In doing so, I caught the VP Eng who did the PIP completely flat footed. It turns out they did the PIP against the advice of their boss, the CTO. Egg all over the VP's face. The VP got canned 6 months after that and had to scramble to find another job while I was at the beach.

How’s retirement? Stress levels?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#147

Post by mangamadaiyan »

Any system can, and will, be abused by the powers that be. Any system that can be abused, will be abused by people with power. There is a clear disparity in power between an IC and a manager.

The "oh, I totally deserved my PIP, so all PIPs must be fair" stories assume that all corporate actions are taken in good faith.

If only.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#148

Post by therealdrag0 »

bsder wrote: post #143
therealdrag0 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why just fire them? As you showed they can “just quit” if they don’t want to play ball, and some people want to have the opportunity to play ball.

> Why just fire them? Legal ass covering--especially if the employee is a minority.

Isn’t that why you shouldn’t just fire them?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#149

Post by triceratops »

charlie0 wrote: post #117
makk wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An even better token of respect is to just can the person and give them a respectable severance package, so they have months (plural) to find their next thing.

Honest question, if someone is performing horribly, why do they deserve a severance package? Isn't that was unemployment insurance is for?

To compensate the employee for the mistake the company made in hiring them.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#150

Post by triceratops »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #80
outside1234 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employment is at-will but you can’t fire someone for non-work reasons. The PIP is there to collect the data that they are firing someone for work reasons.

Maybe I need my understanding corrected. I thought the point of at-will was that you very much could fire someone for nearly reason (you support the Cubs, pack up your desk!). You cannot fire someone for protected classes (gender, race, etc), but basically everything else is fair game.

If it's extensively documented, the fired employee could always allege they were fired for a protected reason.
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