Not policing is the latest SF export coming worldwide.
Jaywalking legalized in New York City
141–150 of 370 posts
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#142I remember visiting California in the 1990s and was amazed to see my California friends waiting patiently at the light, looking at me like I was uncivilized because I just crossed the street whenever it was safe.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's literally how it works in the UK
Population density of London: 15,000 per square mile Population density of Manhattan: 78,000 per square mile (according to wikipedia on both)
However, pedestrians can cross wherever/whenever they think that it's safe to do so anywhere in Britain (Northern Ireland I think has some kind of jaywalking law). It's not just in London or other cities, but remote countrysides too where crossings may not be available. Pedestrians have priority, but it's definitely frowned upon to cause vehicles to have to slow/swerve to avoid a collision.
The Highway Code was recently updated (a few years ago) to make it more explicit that pedestrians crossing a side road junction should have priority over vehicles trying to turn into the side road. However, that's not necessarily followed by all drivers/cyclists etc.
Basically, drivers/cyclists are expected to make all efforts to avoid a collision and will be considered at fault unless it's a scenario where the pedestrian steps into the road without enough time for the driver/cyclist to react and avoid them.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#144The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic,…
It's more of an acceptance of reality. Pedestrians in NYC cross however they want and police only ever intervene if they're doing something excessively dangerous (which I believe is still illegal) or if they're looking for a excuse to harass someone. It's the latter they are trying to eliminate. This will likely have no impact on road safety and slightly reduce the number of people getting hassled by police.
There's also the balance of power that NYC is actually mostly pedestrian. Anything that empowers pedestrians and inhibits cars is a net win for freedom of movement.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, crossing at intersections is much more complex, with traffic typically coming from many more directions than away from intersections.
And yet jaywalking accounts for the majority of pedestrian deaths, despite being a fraction of the number of crossings. Believe it or not, most drivers do look out for pedestrians. Some better than others, but another set of eyeballs is invaluable, especially from the actual car that risks hitting you. Unfortunately, drivers do not expect people to cross in the middle of the street. And they never will, generally spe…
> And yet jaywalking accounts for the majority of pedestrian deaths, despite being a fraction of the number of crossings.
It's because some people think jumping out of bush at 11pm wearing all black to cross right in front of a car is a good idea.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#146Not growing up in america I never understood what jaywalking was - I legit assumed it was a pedestrian crossing a freeway because nothing else made sense. Growing up I was taught explicitly to do what in the US was a crime: crossing between intersections because it is vastly safer than crossing at intersections. Obviously, there's a more complex issue with jaywalking where it is a crime that is trivially easy to enfo…
> it is vastly safer than crossing at intersections
Why is it safer?
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#147I remember visiting California in the 1990s and was amazed to see my California friends waiting patiently at the light, looking at me like I was uncivilized because I just crossed the street whenever it was safe.
When I was visiting Finland in 1990, my friend told me the police were so bored there that jaywalking was very likely to result in a ticket.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#148Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…
>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.
New York is probably the only place in the US where most of the drivers did not learn to drive here.
It's the most international city in the US, and a disproportionate number of people who use the roads (taxis, delivery drivers, etc) grew up in places that have a traffic system very different that the US's. People in New York routinely run red lights, roll through crosswalks, ride in the shoulder - things that you might encounter in other countries, but are generally considered disrespectful/dangerous in the US. When so many drivers grew up driving in places that tolerate those behaviors (either in their home countries or as native New Yorkers), it creates a road culture that's very different than you'd expect in other parts of America.
In other cities, you can take a "trust but verify" approach to traffic. Drivers will respect traffic lights. Pedestrians will cross where they're meant to. People will (only) use the lanes painted on the road. You have to be alert in case an outlier does something differently, but we generally consider those people selfish exceptions.
The written rules and the practiced culture deviate immensely in New York. You can't just operate by the rules and expect that everyone else will too.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jaywalking is any crossing in a wrong / illegal way, not about intersections specifically. Mostly it's about not using crosswalks, so I don't see how it collides with what Europe does. In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road. And then you have countries where the crosswalk lights are mere decorations.
Which countries obey crossing lights as strictly as you describe? I've been to lots of European countries and none were like that. Not in the way that the US is.
Illegal in Russia. There is even a common trick during driving exam: examiner ask you to let a person cross in a middle of a road. You do that, and you've failed the exam.
Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City
#150Not growing up in america I never understood what jaywalking was - I legit assumed it was a pedestrian crossing a freeway because nothing else made sense. Growing up I was taught explicitly to do what in the US was a crime: crossing between intersections because it is vastly safer than crossing at intersections. Obviously, there's a more complex issue with jaywalking where it is a crime that is trivially easy to enfo…
> it is vastly safer than crossing at intersections Why is it safer?
Other comments have pointed out that intersections are difficult to cross safely because cars are coming from multiple directions, often in non-obvious ways.
Between the intersections you only have two directions to worry about.