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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#141

Post by layla5alive »

nerdjon wrote: post #105
unethical_ban wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't require someone to come out to get you signed up for service. Litigation could resolve malicious attempts to "complicate" signups for the purposes of complicating cancellation.

> They didn't require someone to come out to get you signed up for service. I am struggling a bit to understand how Comcast could not argue that it is required? I don't fully remember but I don't think I started paying anything for my service until someone came out to install when self install wasn't an option. (I could possibly see them justifying removing self install in the name of retention later, since how many…

They didn't come out as part of sign up, they came out for install, which is a separate phase. You signed up on the phone or online. They don't need to remove hardware from your house to turn it off.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#142

Post by arrosenberg »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

> I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them.

I don't think it's the same situation. What Adobe was doing was offering a yearly subscription, charged monthly. If you tried to cancel, it would ask for payment to either cover the rest of the sub or to cover the "savings" that the user had obtained by selecting an annual sub rather than a true monthly (can't remember what exactly it tried to charge). It was deceptive as hell, but it's probably not covered by this rule.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#143

Post by pixelatedindex »

jrajav wrote: post #132
bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

If you can sign up for the gym online, then you need to be able to cancel online. That's how this rule is meant to work for all kinds of merchants. Gyms would still be free to pull their usual car-salesman shenanigans on cancellation if they're willing to only take new subscriptions on location and not online, too.

None of the LA Fitness gyms let you cancel online, I’ve reported them but nothing happens. This was about ~3 years ago, maybe they changed it now.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#144

Post by NegativeLatency »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #53
pc86 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a great function of elected representatives would be keeping an eye out for these types of businesses that are societal "code smells" indicating something is wrong, and looking at the regulatory and legislative environment to see what would be changed to make those businesses obsolete.

They do keep an eye out, but for lobbying money. The tax system is a good example.

For anyone missing context: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#145

Post by xrd »

macinjosh wrote: post #44
llamaimperative wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course Republican commissioners are going to vote "no" if the FTC is handing out popular rulings like candy just before the election. What? Why is that defensible? Make life worse/keep life bad for Americans so we have a better chance in an election? Do you hear yourself?

Why is it defensible for an administration to wait until the last days of their term, right around election time, to do their job?

I think the main reason to vote for the current administration is because of the actions taken by the FTC in the last four years. It isn't just this last month.

I would recommend reading the newsletter "Big" by Matt Stoller for context.

Lina Khan seems widely hated across the aisle, so that's a good first step.

The SEC has also taken unprecedented actions under Rohit Chopra.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#146

Post by conradev »

_hcuq wrote: post #135
datadrivenangel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem, is that not paying does not get you out of the legal obligation to pay. Most companies won't follow up because the cost isn't worth it, but there are definitely organizations that will go after you or sell your debts to collection agencies... The marginal cost to a gym/ISP of the remaining duration of your contract is basically zero, especially if you're not going to use it, and they can get a few more d…

Yes. The problem is the current law. Which needs to be changed. Make these predatory contracts illegal.

I don't think these sorts of contracts should be illegal. I think a lot of things around them should be, like gyms requiring you to go in-person to cancel, or offering a terrible phone service to cancel, or marketing it deceptively such that you were unaware it was a contract.

But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers.

I just paid Visible for a year of cellular service up front and it was far cheaper than paying monthly – truly a great deal. I was able to front that money now, but if I paid a slightly higher per-month price in exchange for a year contract, that would be the same but with less money required up front.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#147

Post by pugets »

I once moved towns and needed to cancel my LA Fitness gym membership. I found that they wanted me to go to their website, find the Cancellation Form, print it out, fill it out with my account details, and mail or fax it to their corporate office. I don’t believe there is any way of cancelling it online or over the phone.

So instead of doing that all of that, I called my credit card company and asked them to block all future charges from the company. It worked like a charm.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#148

Post by reginald78 »

bilsbie wrote: post #104

It seems like all this sketchiness actually hurts these companies. I do ten times more subscriptions when I can go through apple and know I can cancel in 5 seconds.

The worst part is it poisons the whole business model for me. Even if your company could restrain itself from these tactics I won't know that until it is to late and even if I did research it there isn't any reason it couldn't change to be awful from being OK. The end result is I turn my nose at the very idea because subscription services are fine with me as an idea but in practice I just don't want to waste the energy dealing with them.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#149

Post by astura »

rachofsunshine wrote: post #99
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

This feels like one of those things that could be solved on the payment end with something like a unique payment ID for each subscription, rather than giving a CC number. Then you just enable or disable payment IDs (perhaps for a limited time, e.g., "create a payment ID that works for Netflix for the next three months but not after that"), rather than relying on vendors to decide whether they feel like charging you o…

You can do this with PayPal, Google Play, and privacy.com. Probably others too, these are just the ones I've used.

The thing is that sometimes you need to actually cancel the service, not just stop paying for it, to remove your financial obligations. Depending on the contract you signed.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#150

Post by cptaj »

fooqux wrote: post #37
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Agreed. The fact that multiple companies are springing up with the main selling point being "help you cancel subscriptions you thought you already cancelled" should be a wake up call to the legislature that this problem has gotten out of hand.

For sure. I hate excessive regulation, but if companies keep poisoning the well, action has to be taken
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