141–150 of 182 posts
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They made enough news that you know about them, at least. Anyway, I don't disagree with the last part.
I know about them because I'm one of them. (This is a pseudonymous account, but I've been a bitcoin developer since 2010, and subject to multiple personal attacks. Thankfully no kidnapping or ransom... yet.)
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An IP was leaked in 2009 though tied to Satoshi in Los Angles
I think that "IP leak" is extremely dubious and is predicated on both misunderstandings of how freenode worked and an incorrect assumption that no one else was running Bitcoin early on.
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> Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10? Can you? it was more than 15 years ago.
Now it is starting to look to me almost like you and Peter Todd are panicking and making huge slip ups. Let me explain. I see that you are now also arguing the IP leak is questionable and that others were running Bitcoin or could have been. Now combine this with the absurd idea that “retep” could have just been abandoned and it means nothing, even peter backwards, there are a million Peters whatever. This is crazy yo…
Also, Satoshi almost certainly lived in the Benelux region when he released Bitcoin. See this paper for some actual evidence-based research: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.10257
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Now it is starting to look to me almost like you and Peter Todd are panicking and making huge slip ups. Let me explain. I see that you are now also arguing the IP leak is questionable and that others were running Bitcoin or could have been. Now combine this with the absurd idea that “retep” could have just been abandoned and it means nothing, even peter backwards, there are a million Peters whatever. This is crazy yo…
You obviously haven't done much research on the topic. There are far, far more likely candidates, like Len Sassaman. Anyone that knew a bit about Bitcoin at the time could have made that BitcoinTalk post, it's not a "slip up". Also, Satoshi almost certainly lived in the Benelux region when he released Bitcoin. See this paper for some actual evidence-based research: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.10257
I’ve been camp Szabo for a while. also have considered Sassaman however it’s not just his anti Bitcoin tweets, which could be misdirection, but people have reported he had genuine conversations with them with same sentiments.
I also initially thought Peter Todd theory was a joke. Wasn’t convinced by doc at all. However once you dig into his life from teen onward and see his current attempts to downplay himself and retell history in strange ways … I don’t know … my position has changed significantly, I think it’s looking more and more possible.
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Also, at the time petertodd's account was named 'retep' and didn't have any immediately obvious connection to his identity. If there had been a slipup he could have just abandoned the account and certainly not later had it renamed to his legal name!
That’s actually a really good point if true. In my mind all anyone has to do to prove they aren’t Satoshi is prove what they were doing on 2009-01-10 and had no possibility of using an IP from somewhere around Van Nuys California. https://whoissatoshi.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/satoshi-in-cal...
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/bluesky/2001-03/msg00063...
Hal Finney and others interacted with Peter Todd as “retep” for more than a decade before the bitcointalk account and post. They would have immediately recognized him.
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You obviously haven't done much research on the topic. There are far, far more likely candidates, like Len Sassaman. Anyone that knew a bit about Bitcoin at the time could have made that BitcoinTalk post, it's not a "slip up". Also, Satoshi almost certainly lived in the Benelux region when he released Bitcoin. See this paper for some actual evidence-based research: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.10257
I have done a lot and have read that paper. I’ve been camp Szabo for a while. also have considered Sassaman however it’s not just his anti Bitcoin tweets, which could be misdirection, but people have reported he had genuine conversations with them with same sentiments. I also initially thought Peter Todd theory was a joke. Wasn’t convinced by doc at all. However once you dig into his life from teen onward and see his…
1) Why wouldn't he have used his Satoshi identity to discredit Craig Wright and save himself and fellow core developers a lot of pain and suffering?
2) Why wouldn't he have spent any of his large BTC stash?
3) Why is he fine being known as an early Bitcoin developer and adopter, but not fine being known as its creator?
4) How would he have a copy of the "20th Symposium on Information Theory in the Benelux", given that it was only distributed to attendants and university libraries in the Benelux?
5) How would he have gotten his hands on the British version of a newspaper on 03/Jan/2009?
Due to 1), I highly doubt that Satoshi remained an active member of the Bitcoin community following his departure. The fact that he stayed silent during the "block wars" and the Craig Wright shitshow shows a complete indifference towards Bitcoin or more likely, that he was dead or incapacitated.
I'm not saying Sassaman is Satoshi, but simply that Sassaman is a much better candidate. This is a picture that Sassaman took of his office in 2007: https://www.flickr.com/photos/enochsmiles/488460964/. Notice anything interesting?
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Your tone makes it sound like you're about to break out gematria next. :) You're deep into confirmation bias. Try considering an alternative hypothesis: This is a new absurd allegation which has only just shown up. Petertodd only learned the documentary would run with this claim hours before it came out as a result of journalists who saw a screener asking him questions. I am not petertodd. At some point surprising la…
> Where's the proof? That's what you demanded above. Most people have jobs or school and maybe kids in school. It means there are records and also we can often have our emails. It’s actually very likely in my opinion that Todd could easily figure out where he was that specific day and there would be corroborating evidence of that. However it’s not limited to that. It could come from any of the Satoshi timestamps, bei…
Yet you can't produce it for yourself, you don't see the issue here? I know I absolutely cannot prove anything about my whereabouts on most random days in 2009, I might be able to reason out where I was on some days but even that wouldn't result in transferable proof. Like I can say, 2009 was before I retired from Juniper and the tenth was a saturday-- so maybe I was home which wouldn't leave any evidence. Or maybe I was on a work trip. But if I was I wouldn't have any evidence of it, and even if I did it quite possibly would have been to California (though not socal, thankfully for my kidnapping risk).
Maybe some people can, if you could then I'd have to argue that just because you can it's no reason to assume everyone can, but it seems you can't prove where you were on that day.
So I guess you're Satoshi! Glad we settled it. :D
> It seems pretty clear the IP in the debug.log file is Satoshi’s node and IRC connection
Why do you believe these is clear?
> I know that. However you and him I believe have a long history together.
Sure, but that doesn't extend to knowing what usernames he used where back before I met him, except by chance.
> didn’t Hal actually know retep for a long time?
As far as I can tell the people on the bluesky list were sort of the expected fallout from the dying cypherpunks lists. But I communicated with Hal extensively in 2004-ish about RPOW, am I suddenly Satoshi?
My SO interacted with him due to the extropians list, I guess she's Satoshi now too?
> isn’t retep remarkably skilled for his age in 2009 and earlier?
Petertodd was 24 in 2009. Here is a wired article about a project of mine in 1997, when I was 18: https://archive.is/UT9NE
When I was 20 I helped crack the cryptography underlying CSS, addressing the risk of player key cancellation wack-a-mole. https://web.archive.org/web/20000226011228/http://www.emedia... (not specifically on the crack however)
It's always fun to talk about myself, but also I could give similar or better examples from other early Bitcoin developers, but I don't want to say anything that would drive this sort of bad logic to accusing them of being Satoshi... but an example:
Another early Bitcoin developer created a novel kind of arithmetic coder as a teenager, starting a line of development that eventually became JPEG-XL.
> for instance claiming to he a poor C++ coder?
He is, as am I. (I'm competent in _C_ however).
The standard for claiming proficiency when you are 18 and clueless is different than when you're 40 and competent. C++ has also evolved significantly over the time. While I can't speak for him, after working and Mozilla and with some of the other Bitcoin developers my idea of what qualifies as a good level of skill in C++ has changed radically.
Petertodd's about being poor re-C++ were specifically related to the Bitcoin codebase. And he like me would generally needs to get someone else to explain varrious fancy C++ features in it these days.
> he worked professionally on a C++ large codebase at 17!
I'm missing the context for this, his webpage from around that age says things like " A mass and springs physics sim I wrote in C++ I didn't manage to finish it though, the physics and math proved too difficult for me. :( The code is more messy then I'd like, I didn't have a good mental picture of what I was working on and my usual good commenting and clear style was hurt because of that." and "I was working on a nice large C++ TradeWars like game called Corporate Raiders. However I got bored of it and stopped work around June 2000. The last thing I did for it was make a compiler which I did manage to get working. Oh well, good learning experience. :) "
I don't think this supports what you're saying? But so what?
We may be suffering from a disconnect about the caliber of people that contributed to Bitcoin early on. Every one of them was weird, every one was exceptional. Bitcoin was the most interesting and radical new thing at least since P2P file trading.
But beyond that there are over three hundred million people in North America, so even if you're looking for one-in-a-million people there are hundreds of them, plenty to have a few show up in Bitcoin development, or even in a particularly interesting HN thread.
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I have done a lot and have read that paper. I’ve been camp Szabo for a while. also have considered Sassaman however it’s not just his anti Bitcoin tweets, which could be misdirection, but people have reported he had genuine conversations with them with same sentiments. I also initially thought Peter Todd theory was a joke. Wasn’t convinced by doc at all. However once you dig into his life from teen onward and see his…
Not only is there not much evidence backing the Peter Todd theory, but there are many issues with it: 1) Why wouldn't he have used his Satoshi identity to discredit Craig Wright and save himself and fellow core developers a lot of pain and suffering? 2) Why wouldn't he have spent any of his large BTC stash? 3) Why is he fine being known as an early Bitcoin developer and adopter, but not fine being known as its creato…
Lots of possibilities.
I would take the source that you're taking these arguments from with a huge grain of salt.
> I'm not saying Sassaman is Satoshi, but simply that Sassaman is a much better candidate.
A hand full of random coincidences which are unsurprising for people of their interests isn't good evidence for any of them.
And it's also not unusual for people to have access to proceedings for events they didn't attend, or even to have them outright, e.g. I have a big set of FC proceedings but only was actually attending for a couple-- https://files.catbox.moe/w1dhwn.jpeg.
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Oh hey Greg :-D Did you watch the movie yet? Was fun. I'm definitely still team Dave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kleiman Last time I talked to Peter was in 2019 and he was making fun of me for spending Bitcoins continuously since 2011, and said Bitcoins are supposed to be hoarded like gold or something, not used as money. Definitely not the attitude of someone who supposedly burned the million Satoshi coins (…
The bitcoin IRC logs are public, the segment in the documentary is from the bitcoin-wizards channel (e.g. https://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/ ). There are a number of public interfaces to them, I didn't catch which one the documentary was using. It doesn't say anything that support's the documentary's thesis, Petertood is talking about provably destroying coins in order to mint identities and similar. This couldn't a…
For whatever reason the documentary presented those logs as coming from another site which never has had logs for that channel prior to 2015. I have no clue why but it probably made it much harder for for many people to find.
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Not only is there not much evidence backing the Peter Todd theory, but there are many issues with it: 1) Why wouldn't he have used his Satoshi identity to discredit Craig Wright and save himself and fellow core developers a lot of pain and suffering? 2) Why wouldn't he have spent any of his large BTC stash? 3) Why is he fine being known as an early Bitcoin developer and adopter, but not fine being known as its creato…
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have late 2010 backups with a copy of the "Design of a secure timestamping service with minimal trust requirements" paper. It was rendered with a January 2009 copy of ghostscript. Just based on the dates there are reasonable odds my copy is the same one Satoshi had. Satoshi contacted the authors he cited for information on how to correctly cite their work, he didn't actually ha…
Neither do I, I was simply comparing them from a Bayesian point of view. There is indeed no "smoking gun". What you say about the citation is possible but I estimate that it's more likely he had a physical copy (I would change my mind about that if we found out he had indeed contacted the authors for citation information).
Also, Sassaman has some important points in his favor that Peter Todd lacks:
1) he is dead. I find it unlikely that Satoshi is still alive and even more unlikely that he is still alive and very publicly involved in Bitcoin.
2) strong connection to one of the white paper's citations
3) cares a lot about privacy/anonymity, e.g. he tried to convince Bram Cohen to release BitTorrent anonymously
But he also has some points that work against him: not being known as a Windows C++ programmer, his wife not believing him to be Satoshi, etc.
Overall I feel Sassaman is more likely than Todd, but I am not convinced he is Satoshi.
