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Math from Three to Seven

thepsmiths.com

141–150 of 225 posts

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#141

This was a surprisingly interesting and well-written article. I hope people read it and not just the comments here :-) I'm unsure if it implies that "lame school exercises" are unnecessary or just not sufficient (I've recently read articles about how teaching "insight" without exercises is detrimental, though perhaps doing problems implies getting that repetition-work). Does anyone have good experiences with keeping…

The article seems to imply though that the nurture/nature quotient is very low. As a one off example, I've always been interested in exact (applied) sciences, my kid much less.

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#142
post #87
post #46

> All joking aside, we fledgling mathematicians understood that the single most important thing was not raw intelligence or knowledge (Americans tend to lag behind in the latter compared to all international students). What mattered was passion. The way to become successful in mathematics, like almost every endeavor, is to care about it, to love it, to obsess over it. This is the most important point from the article…

It depends on what you mean by “good enough”. Most developers today aren’t particularly passionate about it, and certainly not obsessed, but the demand for them is high enough so they still are “good enough” to have relatively cushy jobs.

That's a good point, but it can also be that the employer is satisfied with the "good enough" results.

While it is true that the current high demand on a job market allows many to have "good enough" skills for employment, I would argue that passion, curiosity, and obsession are the driving forces that lead to better outcomes both for individuals and the industry as a whole. These qualities inspire deeper engagement and lead to more quality work. For routine tasks, basic competence might suffice. However, for solving complex problems, it won't...

Passion/curiosity/obsession often leads to voluntary, extensive practice and learning. This typically results in faster skill acquisition and a deeper understanding of the subject matter. While becoming competent without any of these is possible, the path is often slower and limited.

Also, both the tech industry and the job market are evolving rapidly. Passionate/curious/obsessed developers are more likely to keep up with new technologies and methodologies, potentially leading to better long-term career prospects and adaptability. The pace of change in our industry demands a continuous hunger for knowledge and a relentless pursuit of excellence.

In the end, if you don't want to be a mediocre developer with a mediocre career, such stuff matters.

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#143
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had been trained, from an early age, to love mathematics more intensely. Nonsense, sounds like post-hoc rationalization. Maybe talk to some actual Slavic people. Sure the Russians had "math clubs" and "chess clubs" but it wasn't as if the US didn't have RadioShack and garage/ham culture. Talk to some of the older generations that still remember the Berlin Wall and you might also understand why so many women fr…

Hah. In the USSR an average engineer earned less money than an average worker. I'm not joking. But STEM was seen as far more prestigious than manual labor. This was very much a cultural thing, pushed by the government (engineers are useful!). Another thing, there was a huge societal pressure to excel at school. It was common for parents to check their children's marks every day. There's a very famous picture about it…

This is not true at all. Communists made a big emphasis on stem over law and classics, and most communist leaders had stem background.

In communist state prestige is money.

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is where you kid spends the majority of the time. If they find it boring, and the school is unable/unwilling to provide enrichment, then it is an uphill battle to resist that. The ideal solution is to make the work they do at school engaging, then they'll seek out enrichment at home themselves. There might be math-oriented stuff online (3Blue1Brown is one off the top of my head) that keeps them wanting to unde…

The ideal solution is to make the work they do at school engaging, then they'll seek out enrichment at home themselves. One thing I haven’t seen brought up in this discussion yet: technology. Seriously, what hope does a teacher have for getting students to engage when they’re competing against all the might of Silicon Valley? The industry is spending billions every year to discover and implement the best techniques f…

A new law in Belgium will forbid smartphone usage at primary school (age 6..12) at least. There's hope.

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long pondered a similar question - why are there so many Indian and Pakistani women in SWE in comparison to western women? Are Indian/Pakistani women better than western women in engineering? Is the education there better? How are these countries successful in mitigating this gender gap? My theory is that this is actually caused by sexism and gender discrimination. There are smart, intelligent women everywhere,…

There is a general finding that women go into engineering fields (and other relatively high-paying fields) more the poorer their country is. Neither "software engineering" nor "India / Pakistan" is an exceptional case; there is no reason to look at the specifics of the field or the region. Usually the theory is that women everywhere hate engineering, but poor women may suck it up and go into engineering anyway becaus…

I agree this has an effect as well - software engineering is one of the few fields which provide good living in those countries.

However, coming from (relatively poor, but relatively gender-egalitarian) Eastern Europe, female engineers aren't anywhere close to the amount in e.g. India and Pakistan, so I don't think it can explain the disparity completely.

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#146

My biggest issue with math education is that after we learned the theory we never went back and developed an actual plan for solving the problems. For example, we learned a dozen different ways to approach integration, but after all this we never really put together a workable strategy for approaching a problem and deciding what tools to use. It's like trying to teach someone to swim by just throwing them in the wate…

A more structured approach would definitely help! And I think that's the reason why ao many are affraid of math

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#147

My biggest issue with math education is that after we learned the theory we never went back and developed an actual plan for solving the problems. For example, we learned a dozen different ways to approach integration, but after all this we never really put together a workable strategy for approaching a problem and deciding what tools to use. It's like trying to teach someone to swim by just throwing them in the wate…

I would say the opposite, we're teaching them how to swim (the exercises the article talks about) without a swimming pool (real problems).

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#148

It ends like this, largely cancelling out the rest of the article: >In the second iteration of the circle, all of his notes are completely useless, and all of his initial attempts to teach anything fail, because these are different kids with different aptitudes and different interests. Zvonkin, raised in a communist society and a believer in the absolute malleability of human nature, is fairly bowled over by this, es…

I would say in a nutshell, teaching results:YMMV

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect we'll see a continuous slow decrease in all aspects of quality of software as those who have a genuine love and passion for the field are replaced by those in it just for the money. This seems narrow minded. In the early days of software development, the barrier for entry was incredibly high. The possibility of people making high quality, unique software is greater than it ever has been. It's also narrow…

> It's also narrow minded to insist that only passion for engineering itself can produce high quality results. It's like claiming famously wealthy musicians can't and don't make remarkable, impactful music. I think you're making a logical fallacy, or at least you seem to be implying that the set of "famously wealthy" people is disjoint with the set of people who are passionate. Sure, famously wealthy musicians can ma…

> But I haven't seen a lot of lazy, uninspired musicians make great music.

that almost sounds like a joke setup. ;-)

Re: Math from Three to Seven

#150

As a teenager who dislikes the current schooling system, what I am most curious about is actually why something like the "mathematical circles" do not exist in the west. To some extent, a similar social group is formed by robotics teams in my experience. A dedicated teacher/coach and a bunch of people who like electronics can really get amazing things done. Why is this the case?

Why not join the robotics team? Plenty of problems like inverse kinematics and probably newer mathematical approaches.
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