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I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

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Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#141

Post by blindhippo »

kalinkochnev wrote: post #50
blindhippo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is overestimating the impact of LLMs. Fact is, even if they are capable of fully replicating and even replacing actual human thought, at best they regurgitate what has come before. They are, effectively, a tutor (as another commentator pointed out). A human still needs to consume their output and act on it intelligently. We already do this, except with other tools/mechanisms (i.e. other humans). Nothing…

I appreciate your faith in humanity. However you would be surprised to the lengths people would go to avoid thinking for themselves. Ex: a person I sit next to in class types every single group discussion question into chatgpt. When the teacher calls on him he word for word reads the answer. When the teacher follows up with another question, you hear "erh uhm I don't know" and fumbles an answer out. Especially in the…

I'd suggest this is a sign that most "education" or "work" is basically pointless busy work with no recognizable value.

Perpetuating a broken system isn't an argument about the threat of AI. It's just highlighting a system that needs revitalization (and AI/LLMs is not that tool).

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#142

Post by golergka »

ghusto wrote: post #133
golergka wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 billion people growing their own food wouldn't be able to live in our planet even if they had all the necessary skills. Industrial agriculture and related technologies have radically increased the amount of food we can grow compared to individual small farmers.

> 8 billion people growing their own food wouldn't be able to live in our planet even if they had all the necessary skills In the way we currently live, no they wouldn't. But it sounds like you're saying "wouldn't be able to", full stop, which I don't believe is true. There is no reason that all 8 billion people (with the "necessary skills") couldn't grow their own food, theoretically. It would require the west givin…

Well, if by "the way we live" you mean "not having widespread malnutrition problems and hunger periodically killing significant parts of the population", then sure thing.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#143

Post by Balgair »

I want to point out here: These are PhD students that the author is talking about. Granted, it seems like the class is a bit of a 'BS' requirement from the department. Like Ethics classes and HR trainings, i.e. a class that isn't on your quals and has no affect on graduation.

Still, these aren't middle schoolers. They are all 'big kids' when it comes to intellectual attainment. They're past the pre-med and pre-law maddness, they are in academia by choice over money (the author mentions comp-sci students), and they are even bothering to attend this class at all and not just go with a 'Gentleman's A'.

And even these folks, even when confronted, Just. Do. Not. Care.

I get the author's point of view, and agree with their decision to quit.

But, as LLMs get better here in the next 5 years ... yeah, the class is pointless.

Hell, the research is probably pointless too, and the students know it. The truth of the pointlessness is very debatable, once the students get out and past the grad school blues.

I'd love to know what the students are thinking about the class and about it all too. They're the ones being trained on this, afterall, and they clearly do not see any point to it.

I mean, it just feels like the students are some of those Imperial Chinese bureaucracy applicants, sitting alone in those open air cubicles, all next to thousands of others, and trying to make the absolute perfect calligraphic strokes, one chance only, or their entire village's hopes and dreams fall to dust. And no one gives a rat's ass that the words they are writing are saying 'Time is short, dance in the flowers, laugh, run, play, the universe has spared us a precious few'.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#144

Post by Version467 »

nicolas_t wrote: post #73
Version467 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confidently say that a car would be useless to me without gps. I can navigate the small town (10k people) I grew up in, but that’s it. I wouldn’t try to navigate the city I live in now (~350k people) in a car, beyond the street I live on. If I had to and knew gps was broken (hypothetically), then I’d try to reschedule, instead of attempting to navigate with signs and a paper map. I could probably work with prin…

You don't ever walk in your city without gps? Wouldn't you know the streets after a while?

I do, but only for things in my immediate area. Stuff like grocery shopping, haircuts, doctors appointments, etc. Those are all reachable on foot and I know how to get there, because I do it regularly. But the first few times I used gps to find it. Now I know the route.

But that doesn’t help me for anything beyond that radius and probably not even there, because those routes go through parks and other stuff, so the car routes would be different.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#145

Post by thefz »

adamc wrote: post #39

I read this and it struck a chord. A decade or more ago, a friend of mine teaching English in a major state university told me that he was getting lots of students who couldn't seem to read a novel. They could read the words on the page, but they couldn't focus enough to really understand it. My experience is that writing things out always improves my understanding of the subject. It's similar to forcing yourself to…

> Not that chatgpt would be the root cause. Chatgpt would just be a symptom of a much bigger problem.

I work in support. The amount of people that needs to be shown how to do things an IT professional must already know how to do, is expanding. Now it's 40-50% of the requests I receive. Nobody can read a simple email anymore, let alone parse an entire support article.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#146

Post by baal80spam »

thefz wrote: post #145
adamc wrote: post #39

I read this and it struck a chord. A decade or more ago, a friend of mine teaching English in a major state university told me that he was getting lots of students who couldn't seem to read a novel. They could read the words on the page, but they couldn't focus enough to really understand it. My experience is that writing things out always improves my understanding of the subject. It's similar to forcing yourself to…

> Not that chatgpt would be the root cause. Chatgpt would just be a symptom of a much bigger problem. I work in support. The amount of people that needs to be shown how to do things an IT professional must already know how to do, is expanding. Now it's 40-50% of the requests I receive. Nobody can read a simple email anymore, let alone parse an entire support article.

> Nobody can read a simple email anymore, let alone parse an entire support article.

IMO it's rather a case of: "I don't have time to read this, just show me already!"

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#147

Post by archagon »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #37
adamc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already see it in people who cannot navigate their automobile without google maps or some equivalent.

I think what is more readily apparent is that younger folks cannot reverse their car without looking at the camera. Older folks still turn around and look.

Why would you want to? Camera is better in every way.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#148

Post by mike_hearn »

falcolas wrote: post #121
lucianbr wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. This must have been a problem before the invention of LLMs. How was it solved before? Why didn't teaching go out of fashion when TV was invented, or why didn't math disappear when calculators were built? You yourself highlight problems that existed before LLMs, different problems in teaching. Obviously not all teachers quit because of those, and we still h…

> why didn't math disappear when calculators were built? Because you can see a child using a calculator. > Why didn't teaching go out of fashion when TV was invented Laws (which put students in classrooms) and a lack of TV use in classrooms. TV use in classrooms was generally driven by the teachers. > "ChatGPT is different than anything that has come before, and will change everything" It's effectively undetectable w…

You can see someone using AI too.

The problem here is not with children. Children learn in classrooms with teachers who supervise them closely all day. Preventing them using calculators, smartphones, laptops, or whatever else, is very easy assuming you have the basics of classroom discipline in place. This genre of articles bemoaning the effect of LLMs on cheating is coming exclusively from universities, and it's noticeable how the most obvious solution of having students just do the work in class whilst the teacher watches is completely unthinkable to them. It works fine in high school, but universities refuse to do it.

They could do, of course. It doesn't have to be the professors who supervise. Anyone can patrol a hall, or heck, why not use AI to do it? The local CS department can easily knock up some ML models that detect students using smartphones via CCTV. Provisioned laptops can be locked down with recorded screens, etc. Fundamentally supervising students can be done at scale, but universities would apparently rather let their classes and credentials sink (further) into meaninglessness rather than change their ways.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#149

Post by beej71 »

pton_xd wrote: post #28
acbart wrote: post #13

I wonder what can be done. It's terrifying to realize how dependent students are going to become on these tools. Too many people are just not willing to live with the discomfort that comes with learning something difficult, when the alternative is so readily accessible. Short term gain over long term gain, exemplified.

I like the use of the word discomfort here. It does take an acceptance of some level of discomfort to engage with material you don't yet understand. Similar to how you experience some physical discomfort / strain when pushing your limits exercising. As you engage with discomfort your tolerance builds and what was once a difficult exercise becomes routine. The reward is worth the effort but I worry what the future loo…

Indeed. I tell my students it's supposed to be a workout. It's the workout that makes the learning happen.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#150

Post by beej71 »

azhenley wrote: post #8

I just went back to teaching! I’m hopeful that AI makes the classroom experience better for both students and instructors.

It's upheaval, but it's good overall, I think. I'm enjoying figuring out where students should and shouldn't use AI, and also--holy crap--ChatGPT can write quiz questions like nobody's business. :)

I also use it for coming up with ideas for class, and asking it to challenge my knowledge on a topic. (Just be sure to verify all its claims!)

Still trying to figure out how to convince students that the act of writing is so valuable to them that they really should do it. Something that kinda works on college students is the idea that anything easily done with AI will pay no money. So they'd better get their asses in gear and do the hard work if they want to pay off that enormous loan.

This quarter I'm having them do some low-risk (i.e. hard to be wrong, not graded on style) short writing assignments. I'm hoping that it's easier for them to write the low-risk thing than is it to try to come up with a good prompt. Also I've asked them for their personal opinion of the topics explicitly which might make them a little less comfortable to ask an AI to speak on their behalf.

With AI, though, I think we're going to have to start small and really work people back up to writing bigger essays. If you just jump in, they'll just punt to AI. And nothing takes the wind out of my sails faster than someone telling me I have to grade a bunch of shit written by ChatGPT.

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