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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#141

Post by rysertio »

makomk wrote: post #124
diogenes_atx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in the article written by the legal scholars at the Innocence Project: > "There is no reliable evidence proving that Marcellus Williams committed the crime for which he is scheduled to be executed on Sept. 24. The State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him." DNA evidence is based on pr…

As far as I can tell, this isn't actually true: "the DNA evidence that was not destroyed by the state is exculpatory". The Innocence Project are being very careful with their wording here. Initially, they relied on trace DNA on the knife that didn't match the accused murderer, but that ended up being from someone in the prosecutor's office handling it after it had been processed for forensic evidence. Then they tried…

DNA evidence is where it's hard to get a false negative then false positive.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#142

Post by snapcaster »

JohnMakin wrote: post #135
snapcaster wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we lost Roe v. Wade because the democrat party is so useless at representing our interests they failed to ever pass any law granting the right to abortion. Republicans didn't sit on their hands complacently for 40 years like democrats they followed a systematic approach to overturning it. Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L

> Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L I agree with you, except to me it's far more insidious - they used the threat of things like roe v wade being overturned and reproductive rights being taken away to drive donations and voter turnout, thus incentivizing themselves to never actually deal with that looming problem.

Good point! I'm just so frustrated by it because while I don't agree with their positions on basically anything, the republican party appears to do a good job furthering the interests of their voters. I know they're less diverse etc. etc. but it just sucks to see

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#143

Post by maximinus_thrax »

slibhb wrote: post #86
TrackerFF wrote: post #47

So it seems that the original case rested on the following: - Williams GF witness testimony, that Williams confessed to her. - Jailhouse witness testimony, that Williams had confessed to them. - That Williams had items (purse, laptop, etc.) in his car, on the day or day after the murder. But no DNA evidence? A death penalty seems pretty egregious, when you have that kind of evidence. Seems like there's plenty of reas…

That seems like pretty strong evidence to me!

For a civil case, probably. But for a criminal case, the threshold is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Plenty of reasonable doubt in there.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#144

Post by mrangle »

jzackpete wrote: post #95
anonzzzies wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm an atheist, so I wouldn't consider myself an expert on their beliefs, but you don't appear to be either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill

Lost in translation, the Commandment is not to murder. Legal killing of the guilty (of murder), and in self defense for example, is not murder. Just as it isn't in the secular legal system. Therefore, there is no conflict.

That's not to say that there isn't room for mercy when called for. Also, prudence should be exercised to the highest possible standard and then some.

No one has broken a Commandment by executing Ted Bundy for example, by defending from a hostile Army, nor by defending their own life from imminent murder by a criminal aggressor.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#145

Post by klyrs »

knodi123 wrote: post #109
JeremyNT wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

> Both of these individuals were known fabricators Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault. > this is hearsay and not evidence Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized. And Asano refused a cash reward for relaying the confessions she had heard. Regardless, h…

> Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault.

This is all superfluous to the question of the credibility of the two witnesses. It isn't about being "fair" and treating Williams and the two witnesses the same -- one is on trial, the others are not.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#146

Post by klyrs »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #130
JeremyNT wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

It's not hearsay to go to the witness stand and say the defendant told you something. That defendant is there in court and is able to defend themselves.

That's literally the definition of hearsay. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#147

Post by aguaviva »

knodi123 wrote: post #59
rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. He pawned the victim's possessions. He was seen disposing of bloody clothes. He already had 15 felony convictions in addition to offenses related to Ms. Gayle's murder: robbery (2), armed criminal action (2), assault (2), burglary (4), stealing (3), stealing a motor vehicle, and unlawful use of a weapon. Now, as to whether this evidence is so…

But there's plenty of evidence.

Perhaps so. I'm not familiar with the details of the case.

But this I do know: prior felony convictions are manifestly not evidence.

Presenting them as such causes me to seriously doubt the broader argument you are trying to make here.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#149

Post by sparrish »

slibhb wrote: post #86
TrackerFF wrote: post #47

So it seems that the original case rested on the following: - Williams GF witness testimony, that Williams confessed to her. - Jailhouse witness testimony, that Williams had confessed to them. - That Williams had items (purse, laptop, etc.) in his car, on the day or day after the murder. But no DNA evidence? A death penalty seems pretty egregious, when you have that kind of evidence. Seems like there's plenty of reas…

That seems like pretty strong evidence to me!

[flagged]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#150

Post by randallsquared »

atmavatar wrote: post #111
knodi123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both of these individuals were known fabricators Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault. > this is hearsay and not evidence Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized. And Asano refused a cash reward for relaying the confessions she had heard. Regardless, h…

I would think the far more compelling detail is the one you overlooked: > Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified. Not only were the two known liars, but their accounts could not be verified, and they conflict with each other as well as the existing evide…

The quote

> neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police.

from The Innocence Project seems carefully worded to imply that they didn't say anything that mattered, while still leaving open that they provided information that the police had, but which had not be publicly released.

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