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Rio: Web apps in pure Python

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Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#141

Post by thegiogi »

darepublic wrote: post #84
bityard wrote: post #83

It's a bit sad that most of the comments here are negative. Most of them seem to be some variation of, "Nobody needs a tool like this, all you have to do is simply dedicate yourself to multiple years of writing corporate CRUD apps in both vanilla soul-crushing Javascript and web frameworks. You know, like I did." So, I am the target audience of this. I have a LOT of experience writing tools and automation and that is…

Ok that's great. I guess I'm just skeptical you won't have to either A. Settle for premade layouts B. Learn some CSS like specification of custom styles. And that is where you get sucked into the rabbit hole

On the css side, I can tell you that rio (that is by no means the first library of its kind) actually does not require any knowledge of css to be used. It does not use the same concepts. While the simplification costs you some levels of customization, it is not something that would truly matter in a lot if not most of its use cases.

The simplified layout system comes with its own inspection tool built into the dev version of your app so you get productive in an hour or so. They really got that part right in my opinion. As soon as they make custom components done I’m gonna discuss adopting it for our internal tooling.

I am not affiliated with them btw.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#142

Post by wiseowise »

jononor wrote: post #135
wiseowise wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because the tooling and patterns change almost daily. That is just plain wrong. And that comes from someone who stayed from web dev for the same reason. Nowadays it’s vite/esbuild and you’re good to go. And you don’t need any web framework to come up with basic ui. touch index.html; touch styles.css; python3 -m http.server And you’re good to go. > "I know a fair amount about computers, I want to write a web applica…

Last time I (kinda halfway / didn't) learned frontend it was react-create-app. Before that webpack. And before that grunt. You do not need a framework if you really know CSS and HTML5 well, but that is exactly "knowing the whole stack" - which was the parents point.

> Last time I (kinda halfway / didn't) learned frontend it was react-create-app. Before that webpack. And before that grunt.

You’re describing more than 10 years of evolution here. That’s hardly daily.

These days it’s npx vite build, what’s there to learn?

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#143

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

zem wrote: post #55
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine is great for your blog, but it's not even a little bit tempting for real world professional projects. Looking back at every project I've worked on there's no shot I would ever select Alpine for any of them. These type of condescending comments really scream "I'm not even a web developer but here's my strong opinion as someone who only makes toy front ends to demo my data work"

would you use one of these python-to-web frameworks like rio though? I think gp was just saying alpine was a good alternative to that.

Also 0 chance. Well maybe under some specific unrealistic constraints.

But I am a fan of alternative approaches to the typical stuff just for the fun and learning aspect of it. I'd never come on here and be like "oh well that's cute, but it's useless, why can't we just x".

For example I think Imba is pretty cool and I've used it for a couple throwaway personal projects just to give a spin, but I'd not use it at work.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#144

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

pier25 wrote: post #122
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine is great for your blog, but it's not even a little bit tempting for real world professional projects. Looking back at every project I've worked on there's no shot I would ever select Alpine for any of them. These type of condescending comments really scream "I'm not even a web developer but here's my strong opinion as someone who only makes toy front ends to demo my data work"

Back in the day we did plenty of "real world professional projects" with jQuery. I don't see why you couldn't with Alpine. Yeah at some point you may need a more sophisticated solution but plenty of projects don't need React. This very forum you're using is just a very simple vanilla js file.

> Back in the day we did plenty of "real world professional projects" with jQuery.

I was there, it sucked

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#145

Post by joezydeco »

bityard wrote: post #83

It's a bit sad that most of the comments here are negative. Most of them seem to be some variation of, "Nobody needs a tool like this, all you have to do is simply dedicate yourself to multiple years of writing corporate CRUD apps in both vanilla soul-crushing Javascript and web frameworks. You know, like I did." So, I am the target audience of this. I have a LOT of experience writing tools and automation and that is…

Coming off yesterday's Qt discussion (summary: it's fucked up and there are no usable alternatives in embedded), I was dreading the possibility of having to learn Node/React to make anything usable on future projects.

This may have come along at exactly the right time. I'm kind of interested.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#146

Post by quantadev »

wiseowise wrote: post #140
quantadev wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote lots of Applets too. My parenthetical "(Applets)" in that post was misleading, sorry. Java and Applets pre-existed JavaScript, and purely due to a 10 day timing constraint put on him by Netscape management (right after their deal with Sun Microsystems), Brendan Eich, wanting a Java-syntax, but not having enough time to do it right, cobbled together JavaScript instead.

> and purely due to a 10 day timing constraint put on him by Netscape management (right after their deal with Sun Microsystems), Brendan Eich, wanting a Java-syntax, but not having enough time to do it right, cobbled together JavaScript instead. Stop spreading FUD. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Stuff that people hate wasn’t even part of the original demo. https://buttondown.com/hillelwayne/archive/did-b…

I read that whole blog post and nothing in there disagrees with what I said.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#147

Post by [deleted] »

wiseowise wrote: post #139
quantadev wrote: post #109

The biggest tragedy in the history of software engineering was back in the mid 1990s when they failed to get Java (Applets) to run in the browser so they had to invent JavaScript, which was purely nothing but a hack put together over a weekend by one guy and it "stuck" like napalm onto humanity and has been burning us ever since. I would say at least one billion man hours (100 billion? Trillion?) has been wasted tryi…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#148

Post by bityard »

wiseowise wrote: post #132
bityard wrote: post #83

It's a bit sad that most of the comments here are negative. Most of them seem to be some variation of, "Nobody needs a tool like this, all you have to do is simply dedicate yourself to multiple years of writing corporate CRUD apps in both vanilla soul-crushing Javascript and web frameworks. You know, like I did." So, I am the target audience of this. I have a LOT of experience writing tools and automation and that is…

> because the tooling and patterns change almost daily. That is just plain wrong. And that comes from someone who stayed from web dev for the same reason. Nowadays it’s vite/esbuild and you’re good to go. And you don’t need any web framework to come up with basic ui. touch index.html; touch styles.css; python3 -m http.server And you’re good to go. > "I know a fair amount about computers, I want to write a web applica…

Well, both of those things were hyperbole, not really to be taken quite so literally.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#149

Post by mattgreenrocks »

wiseowise wrote: post #138
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree. What makes the presentation layer of HTML/JS/CSS so different from Win32 of yore, which had VB? VB enabled a LOT of bespoke monstrosities, but it let you do things quickly and easily. We need something like that for the web. There will always be essential complexity in dealing with the client/server nature of web apps. But there's still a lot of incidental complexity that can be burned off.

> We need something like that for the web. It’s called HTML/CSS/JS.

They should be, but the default browser styling is terrible.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#150

Post by meiraleal »

quantadev wrote: post #109

The biggest tragedy in the history of software engineering was back in the mid 1990s when they failed to get Java (Applets) to run in the browser so they had to invent JavaScript, which was purely nothing but a hack put together over a weekend by one guy and it "stuck" like napalm onto humanity and has been burning us ever since. I would say at least one billion man hours (100 billion? Trillion?) has been wasted tryi…

Java is the new COBOL in many places, thanks God it is not part of the browser. Such a terrible development of language, terribly slow for anything desktop, terribly slow as DX. We would have 100x more people complaining if there weren't a script attached to that Java.
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