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A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

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Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#141

Post by Izkata »

shiroiushi wrote: post #115
AlbertCory wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe look at how it's worked out in practice, instead of just giving the theory. We have a two-party system, and that's just the way it is. https://alaskapublic.org/2024/05/29/ranked-choice-voting-tha... Gamesmanship: Alaska is a red state. Only RCV would result in a Dem being elected. https://www.wsj.com/opinion/alaska-ranked-choice-voting-mary... (not on archive, sorry. Here's the relevant part) Republicans have l…

This is actually a really interesting real-life instance showing that, in this particular case, RCV didn't achieve an optimal outcome. But what's a better voting system that would have achieve the presumably optimal outcome here (the less-polarizing GOP candidate Begich getting elected)? If we just compare to simply plurality voting, the outcome seems the same: Peltola got the highest vote of the 3, so in regular FPT…

> But what's a better voting system that would have achieve the presumably optimal outcome here (the less-polarizing GOP candidate Begich getting elected)?

One I don't think gets talked about enough is approval voting. Vote for as many candidates as you like, whoever gets the most votes wins. Voting for all of them is effectively the same as voting for none of them. It also has the massive benefit for the general population that it's simple to explain. Even gives third-party candidates and moderate candidates a real chance at winning, since no one would feel like they're throwing their vote away by including them.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#142

Post by dm270 »

__d wrote: post #30
__d wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could read Guide's message (assuming the first comment is quoting it accurately) as being sarcastic about Tim Peters' banning. The mods probably feel like this is undermining their authoritah, and dropped the banhammer.

I guess it could be considered to breach the Code of Conduct, disrespecting the decision to ban Tim? Being respectful. We're respectful of others, their positions, their skills, their commitments, and their efforts.

This seems to be the perfect pretense to justify any sort of banning an organized majority would want.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#143

Post by basementcat »

ggm wrote: post #25

One post. His posting rights haven't been withdrawn, it's one message in context which was elided out. [edit: I am somewhat surprised people want to down-vote a factual statement, which in part aligns to the OP who changed the title of the post since it was being wrongly inferred his posting rights had gone, not a single post was being hidden. As the saying goes "you do you"]

I also don’t fully understand why some folks are worked up. We all have posts that are downvoted and removed even here on HN. If you don’t like the steering committee or whatever, just elect a new one.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#144

Post by gorgoiler »

nromiun wrote: post #126

Very sad to see this happening to the Python community. Maybe we need a fork with only technical discussion allowed. This CoC/vote stuff seems to poison every community it touches.

I think the politics of power is unavoidable no matter how well you silo your technical work from your people work.

Ten years ago, Debian saw three well respected members of the Technical Committee resign — including two former project leaders, one of whom designed the .deb packaging system — during what I see as a similarly heated vote/counter-vote power struggle. This Python saga feels similar.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#145

Post by nromiun »

gorgoiler wrote: post #144
nromiun wrote: post #126

Very sad to see this happening to the Python community. Maybe we need a fork with only technical discussion allowed. This CoC/vote stuff seems to poison every community it touches.

I think the politics of power is unavoidable no matter how well you silo your technical work from your people work. Ten years ago, Debian saw three well respected members of the Technical Committee resign — including two former project leaders, one of whom designed the .deb packaging system — during what I see as a similarly heated vote/counter-vote power struggle. This Python saga feels similar.

BDFL model seems to have worked pretty well for so many decades. Guido should have just transferred power to someone he trusted. Now look at him, he can't even comment freely.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#146

Post by bb88 »

Izkata wrote: post #138
bb88 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The weaponisation of censorship is predominantly a far left tactic. Incorrect. It's an authoritarian tactic, which can either be left or right. On the right today is Idaho with their new book banning law prohibiting minors from accessing books with LGBTQ+ themes (regardless of whether there was any sex or not). On the left, you have Tipper Gore which was famous for advocating for the sticker placed on CD's to alert…

> On the right today is Idaho with their new book banning law prohibiting minors from accessing books with LGBTQ+ themes (regardless of whether there was any sex or not). This is misleading. It's against anything pornographic being made accessible in schools / to people under 18 years old, LGBT or otherwise. "Homosexuality" is mentioned only once: > 3. "Sexual conduct" means any act of masturbation, homosexuality, se…

There is nothing that in the law that allows the libraries to defend whether a book is harmful to minors once the challenge is made. So any challenged books have to go into the adults-only section.

26% of books challenged in 2023 had no sexual content. Since the library has their hands tied, those books must go into the adults only section. Including the books on Rosa Parks.

https://idaholibraries.wildapricot.org/resources/Documents/C...

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#147

Post by Lockal »

oblvious-earth wrote: post #2

The original text stated: > I don’t know much about voting systems, but I know someone who does. Unfortunately he’s currently banned. Maybe we can wait until his 3-month ban expires and ask him for advice? Currently, the text reads: > This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden. Since it has been hidden for more than 24 hours, this suggests that a moderator action has marked it as permanently hid…

This post was unflagged few moments ago, also received 20 likes (from 7 to 27) for last hour.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#148

Post by oblvious-earth »

Lockal wrote: post #147
oblvious-earth wrote: post #2

The original text stated: > I don’t know much about voting systems, but I know someone who does. Unfortunately he’s currently banned. Maybe we can wait until his 3-month ban expires and ask him for advice? Currently, the text reads: > This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden. Since it has been hidden for more than 24 hours, this suggests that a moderator action has marked it as permanently hid…

This post was unflagged few moments ago, also received 20 likes (from 7 to 27) for last hour.

Thanks for the update, unfortunately I can no longer edit my top comment or title to reflect this.

Would be happy for admin to do so, if that's something that's done on this site.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#149

Post by rich_sasha »

oblvious-earth wrote: post #2

The original text stated: > I don’t know much about voting systems, but I know someone who does. Unfortunately he’s currently banned. Maybe we can wait until his 3-month ban expires and ask him for advice? Currently, the text reads: > This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden. Since it has been hidden for more than 24 hours, this suggests that a moderator action has marked it as permanently hid…

Are we all going to get banned for mentioning a post that mentions a ban?

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#150

Post by Ferret7446 »

bb88 wrote: post #134
ein0p wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The walrus operator doesn’t seem like such a big deal now given these developments, and no doubt future developments of the same sort. The permanently offended aren’t going to just go until everything is in ruins and all the main contributors are gone.

Well, on the other hand, the only way out for a "Dictator" in the "BDFL" is to resign or be overthrown. He decided to resign, which is probably for the best. Otherwise a fork would have forced the decision, and been worse for the community as a whole. Packaging and the 2.x to 3.x migration were both nightmares under his stewardship. Keep in mind that the leaders of the PSF can be voted out, if so chosen by the commun…

So BDFLs are immortal apparently. Maybe that can be a good motivation for people to contribute to open source.
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