Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid • Hacker News Board

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#141

Post by bradknowles » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 4:39 AM UTC

herewego wrote: post #113

gruez wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the fat cats who own ERCOT don’t like that. And who are those? Wikipedia says: >ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation,[11][12] and its members include consumers, electric cooperatives, generators, power marketers, retail electric providers, investor-owned electric utilities (transmission and distribution providers), and municipally owned electric utilities.[13] It's not "owned" by anyone.

You are uninformed. ERCOT is heavily influenced (“owned”) by Investor Owned Utilities (IOUs) and market makers that are profit seeking entities. This is true of all ISOs for all intents and purposes. It is the primary reason why the U.S. grid is slow to innovate/change, e.g., implementing distributed generation participation in wholesale markets, etc.

Thank you! You said it better than I could have!

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#142

Post by nothercastle » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 1:48 PM UTC

hmcdona1 wrote: post #2

If I'm reading this right, my thermostat's "rush hours" seem to be scheduled for gross load peak. They then seem to usually end (and kick my AC back to a desired temp causing a ton of usage) right around net load peak...which this is now reporting is when energy prices go through the roof. So basically the "rush hour" program has likely been costing me more money than if I just ignored them to begin with up to this p…

It seems like it would be more grid efficient to use more power at 3-5pm to cool your house to temperature early while solar is still high in availability then to rush and cool from 5-6 when you get home. The current rate structure for anyone not paying spot rate does not incentivize that of course.

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#143

Post by nothercastle » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

Rastonbury wrote: post #128

boringg wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Connecting your grid to other markets for the premise of cheaper energy also puts you in a situation where you no longer control your own destiny. My expectation is that the presumed gains of some cheaper power don't balance the risk on reliability and control. I don't necessarily buy the argument but I am fairly certain that a big chunk of it.

Forgive my ignorance but doesn't connecting to other grid allow them to buy energy when prices are low and still allow them to generate their own when the national grid prices are high? It would also allow them to sell excess no?

It does but it appears the market unit for a block of energy does not match well with what is actually needed. So you might need 1-2 hours worth of extra power to hit peak demand but you have to buy 6 and dump the 4.

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#144

Post by chapchaps » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

npoc wrote: post #140

Salgat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that burning energy for bitcoin is far more frivolous than for air conditioning.

That's because you don't know enough to understand why bitcoin is far more useful to humanity than air conditioning. In fact it's not even comparable.

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that what amounts to a game isn’t even vaguely comparable to something that provides an immediate and quantifiable impact for someone. Perhaps you don’t understand that bitcoin is a leech on society with no real benefit.

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#145

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

chapchaps wrote: post #144

npoc wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you don't know enough to understand why bitcoin is far more useful to humanity than air conditioning. In fact it's not even comparable.

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that what amounts to a game isn’t even vaguely comparable to something that provides an immediate and quantifiable impact for someone. Perhaps you don’t understand that bitcoin is a leech on society with no real benefit.

[deleted]

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#146

Post by npoc » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

chapchaps wrote: post #144

npoc wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you don't know enough to understand why bitcoin is far more useful to humanity than air conditioning. In fact it's not even comparable.

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that what amounts to a game isn’t even vaguely comparable to something that provides an immediate and quantifiable impact for someone. Perhaps you don’t understand that bitcoin is a leech on society with no real benefit.

You have no idea what money really is.

The reality is that fiat is the leech on society. It's a cancer on the world, slowly destroying it. Bitcoin is the cure. It's one of the most important inventions in the history of mankind and it's positive effects on the world will be profound. I'd go as far as saying that it's more important than the internet itself.

Watch some Michael Saylor/Robert Breedlove interviews and educate yourself. Read "The Creature From Jekyll Island".

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#147

Post by zdragnar » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

reaperman wrote: post #139

zdragnar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I prefer 100+ degree heat to -40. Where I live we often get both in the same year (though we didn't hit 100 this particular summer). At least with the heat, you aren't worrying that your plumbing might freeze and burst a pipe in your walls if the power goes out.

Everywhere I’ve lived where it actually does get to -40, none of the pipes burst if you lose power for extended periods. First, they’re buried well below the frost line, and secondly, there’s usually an pressurized air inlet nozzle somewhere so you can open a faucet and blow all the water out if you’ll be gone for a long time. Fun fact, -40 is the same in F and C so it’s fine to omit the units for once!

It's not the pipes underground that you worry about, it's the ones in your walls. You don't really have the option of draining the water if you happen to be on a short vacation at the time. If it's overnight, you get to stay up all night wondering if you should do it or hold out hope that the power will come back on soon, since pipes in exterior walls (typically for the kitchen sink) don't have nearly as much insulation around them as do the rest of the house.

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#148

Post by reaperman » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #147

reaperman wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I’ve lived where it actually does get to -40, none of the pipes burst if you lose power for extended periods. First, they’re buried well below the frost line, and secondly, there’s usually an pressurized air inlet nozzle somewhere so you can open a faucet and blow all the water out if you’ll be gone for a long time. Fun fact, -40 is the same in F and C so it’s fine to omit the units for once!

It's not the pipes underground that you worry about, it's the ones in your walls. You don't really have the option of draining the water if you happen to be on a short vacation at the time. If it's overnight, you get to stay up all night wondering if you should do it or hold out hope that the power will come back on soon, since pipes in exterior walls (typically for the kitchen sink) don't have nearly as much insulat…

> You don't really have the option of draining the water if you happen to be on a short vacation at the time.

I know this sounds like I’m just arguing for the sake of arguing, and maybe I am … but everywhere i’ve lived that gets to -40 there’s been an incredible neighborly energy. This is a situation where I would 100% just call a neighbor to flush my pipes, even if I don’t typically get along with that neighbor.

There’s something about places where you have to shovel 1 foot of snow twice a day just to park your car in the driveway that leads to people just giving a helping hand whenever it might make a difference.

Idk, YMMV but the only place I’ve seen people pipes freeze and burst was in Texas. And that includes living places where school doesn’t shut down during a blizzard and -40 temps.

And yes, these places definitely can be very noticeably racist but even then people would still absolutely do this for a neighbor.

Re: Breaking down a record-setting day on the Texas grid

#149

Post by sunshinesnacks » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:50 AM UTC

hmcdona1 wrote: post #8

sunshinesnacks wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is obvious, but make sure to check your rate structure with your energy company. Just because market prices are high later in the day doesn’t mean that’s when your prices are highest.

While this is true for much of Texas. I happen to live in a city that still has a public operator. So we just get more generalized flatter rates. I haven't looked into the details of my plan closely in a while as a result though, so you might be right. En masse though, it seems not ideal from a cost perspective the way things have been scheduled up until now. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it might be a…

Sorry for the late reply. That all makes sense. And it’s definitely possible that your power company’s rate structure isn’t really optimal for them (or the market, or you). Electricity rates seem to be generally messy and a mix of big compromises, in my experience.