It's really getting to the point where multimedia online shouldn't be trusted unless it's from a reputable source and cross verified. I wonder, is there a universe where maybe cameras are updated to add some sort of digital signature to videos/photos to indicate they are real and haven't been tampered with? Is that feasible/possible? I'm not skilled with cryptography stuff to know, but if we can digital sign document…
Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
141–150 of 179 posts
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Older people are less likely to have their entire personas and private lives fully documented on social media.
Younger people really should consider this point. Personally, I don't use streaming video outside of work and there are no videos of me on youtube or any social media to train a model on even if someone wanted to. My mother in her 70s doesn't even have a debit card. She thinks the idea is ridiculous and insecure. She writes paper checks and that is it. To put her account number on an electronic device would be comple…
As my accountant says: "For every person in your neighborhood committing check fraud, there are ten-thousand people around the world trying to steal your money online."
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a few off the top of my head: Movies and TV: - As an alternative to motion capture for animation - As an alternative to existing de-aging CGI when you want to flash back to a younger version of a character (especially for cases where newer sequels are being made for much older movies) - As an easy way to get some additional footage if an actor no longer looks the part In a professional setting: - Conduct job int…
None of these uses - most of which benefit a slim percentage of society or are needlessly complicated by this technology - outweigh the severe downsides to society. It's the apex of foolishness to act glibly about this. This all ends extremely badly.
Personally, I have mixed feelings. I think that most of the outcomes we're most concerned about are going to happen one way or another, and developing in public or even commoditization of access to it is going to be a net reduction in harm over locking it up and pretending it doesn't exist while allowing people (and nations) with the resources to run large models in secret to develop and use the technology against people who are ignorant of what's possible.
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Older people are less likely to have their entire personas and private lives fully documented on social media.
Younger people really should consider this point. Personally, I don't use streaming video outside of work and there are no videos of me on youtube or any social media to train a model on even if someone wanted to. My mother in her 70s doesn't even have a debit card. She thinks the idea is ridiculous and insecure. She writes paper checks and that is it. To put her account number on an electronic device would be comple…
But she's handing a plaintext copy of her account number to everyone she pays with a check..
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
The answer is that anyone working on deepfakes doean't care much about ethics or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.
I think this is an oversimplification that undermines your goals. If you're unwilling to recognize the benefits of something, it becomes easier to dismiss your argument. Instead, the truth is balancing trade-offs and benefits. Certainly there is a clear and harmful downside to this tech. But there are benefits. It does save a lot of money for the entertainment industry when you need to edit or do retakes. The most fa…
I think the downside is 10 orders of magnitude larger than this benefit.
I also think there are more people who'd call this usage a downside than a benefit.
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#146I think AI + deepfakes will increase the value pressure on in-person interactions - ie, the only time when you can (for now) believe your eyes and ears. I wonder how politics can be transacted in such an environment. Old-timey first-past-the-post might be the optimal solution if you can't trust anything from out of earshot.
In person interactions like this CIA mask expert tricking a US president? https://spyscape.com/article/master-of-disguise-how-the-cias...
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#147FTA: "Ethical Use Safeguards Built-in checks prevent processing of inappropriate content, ensuring legal and ethical use." I see it claims to not process content with nudity, but all of the examples on the website demo impersonation of famous people, including at least one politician (JD Vance). I'm struggling to understand what the authors consider 'ethical' deepfaking? What is the intended 'ethical' use case here?…
I too have ethical concerns. There are upsides though. It is a powerful tool for image and video editing (for swapping, you still need a generator on the backbone)[0]. It is a powerful tool for compression and upsampling (your generative model __is__ a compression of (a subset of) human faces, so you don't need to transmit the same data across the wire). It is easy to focus on the upsides and see the benefits. It is easy to not spend as much time and creative thinking directed at malicious usages (you're not intending to use or develop something for malicious acts, right?!). But there's two ways to determine malicious usages of a technology: 2) you emulate the thinking of a malicious actor, contemplating how they would use your tool, and 2) time.
But I also do think application matters. I think this can get hairy when you get nuanced. Are all deepfakes that are done without consent of the person being impersonated unethical? I think at face (pun intended) value, this looks like an unambiguous no. But what about parody like Sassy Justice?[1]. Intent here is not to deceive, and the deep fakes add to the absurdity of the characters, and thus the messages. Satire and parody itself doesn't work unless mimicry exists[2]. Certainly these comedic avenues are critical tools in democracy, challenging authority, and challenging mass logic failures[3] (which often happens specifically due to oversimplification and not thinking about the details or abuse).
I want to make these points because I think things are post hoc far easier to dismiss than a priori. We're all argumentative nerds, and I think despite the fact that we constantly make this mistake, we can all recognize that cornering someone doesn't typically yield in surrender, but them fighting back harder (why you never win an argument on the internet, despite having all the facts and being correct). And since we're mostly builders (of something) here, we all need to take much more care. *The simpler you rationalize something to be post hoc, the more difficult it will be to identify a priori.*
Even at the time, I had reservations when building what I made. But one thing I've found exceptionally difficult in ML research is that it is hard to convince the community that data is data. The structure of data may be different and that may mean we need more nuance in certain areas than others (which is exciting, as that's more research!), but at the end of it, data is data. But we get trapped in our common datasets to evaluate[4] and more and more, our research needs to be indistinguishable from a product (or at least a MVP). If we can make progress by moving away from Lena, I think we can make progress by moving away from faces AND by being more nuanced.
I don't regret building what I built, but I do wish there was equal weighting to the part of my voice that speaks about nuance and care (it is specifically that voice that led to my successful outcomes too). The world is messy and chaotic. We (almost) all want to clean it up and make it better. But because of how far we've advanced, we need to recognize that doing good (or more good than harm) is becoming harder and harder. Because as you advance in any topic, the details matter more and more. We are biased towards simplicity and biased towards thinking we are doing only good[5], and we need to fight this part of ourselves. I think it is important to remember that a lie can be infinitely simple (most conspiracies are indistinguishable from "wizards did it"), but accuracy of a truth is bounded by complexity (and real truth, if such a thing exists, has extreme or infinite complexity).
With that said, one of my greatest fears of AI, and what I think presents the largest danger, is that we outsource our thinking to these machines (especially doing so before they can actually think[6]). That is outsourcing one of the key ingredients into what defines us as humans. In the same way here, I think it is easy to get lost in the upsides and benefits. To build with the greatest intentions! But above all, we cannot outsource our humanity.
Ethics is a challenging subject and it often doesn't help that we only get formal education through gen ed classes. But if you're in STEM, it is essential that you are also a philosopher, studying your meta topic. Don't need to publish there, but do think about. Even just over beers with your friends. Remember, it's not about being right -- such a thing doesn't exist --, it is about being less wrong[7]
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxanN85O84
[1] https://www.youtube.com/@SassyJustice
[2] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/2022...
[3] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
[4] I do think face data can be helpful when evaluating models as our brains are quite adept at recognizing faces and even small imperfections. But this should make it all that much clearer that evaluation is __very__ hard.
[5] I think it is better to frame tech (and science) like a coin. It has value. The good or evil question is based on how the coin is spent. Even more so how the same type of coins are predominantly spent. Both matter and the topic is coupled, but we also need to distinguish the variables.
[6] Please don't nerdsplain to me how GPTs "reason". I've read the papers you're about to reply with. I recognize that others disagree, but I am a researcher in this field and my view isn't even an uncommon one. I'm happy to discuss, but telling me I'm wrong will go nowhere.
[7] https://hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#148It's really getting to the point where multimedia online shouldn't be trusted unless it's from a reputable source and cross verified. I wonder, is there a universe where maybe cameras are updated to add some sort of digital signature to videos/photos to indicate they are real and haven't been tampered with? Is that feasible/possible? I'm not skilled with cryptography stuff to know, but if we can digital sign document…
The idea of a signed and verified stream has only been used to enforce old-school distribution rights. Because of this, the implementations are clunky and have zero incentive for consumer adoption. Why buy your own handcuffs?
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#149Technically impressive but I fail to see a good use case for it that's not related to propaganda or scam and the website doesn't seem to list one either.
One legitimate one I could imagine is if people want to pursue a career in the adult film industry but without having to reveal their true face (not with a celebrity face of course)
It's even more amusing when one sees glitches like eyes appearing in front of a strand of hair...
Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool
#150Well, I understand how it works, and I still find it freaking amazing. The quality is... impressive. On the flip side, the ability to deep-fake a face in real time on a video call is now accessible to pretty much every script kiddie out there. In other words, you can no longer trust what your eyes see on video calls. We live in interesting times.
It's interesting, because the subconscious ability of the mind to identify discrepancies is incredible (even if we ignore that feeling we get about something). The feel of counterfeit bills, the color someone choose to wear, the sound that doesn't quite fit. I think deep-fakes are mostly a danger to people without a lot of source material for their minds to compare against. You could trick me into believing I was tak…
Others here seem to be interpreting the statement as, “I could be tricked because I am an older person, while a younger person would not be so easily deceived.”