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The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

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Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#141

Post by yunwal »

cdrini wrote: post #109
outime wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should start understanding that "independent" rankings won't ever work. Let's not even get started with "fact-checking" places which we can count by dozens per country now, as they all have their own interpretations (or otherwise a single one alone would be enough). For such a thing to work, it needs to be funded. At the end, it doesn't matter if it comes from public or private hands, it's going to be leaning towa…

I think it can work, but will require a very well designed set of rules. For example, with fact checking, some fact checking is easy. Eg if an article says "the unemployment rate last year was X%". You have to do some research to determine what measure of unemployment they're using, but boom, you can say it is factually incorrect if no measure lists that number. This process is even easier if it's linked to the data…

The unemployment rate is far from straightforward. Things like "who is counted as part of the workforce" and "what is employment" - the definitions change pretty often, and a well-rounded source would also have to look at something like COVID and explain how it might have affected unemployment. In many cases, saying "the unemployment rate was X%" with no context would be journalistic malpractice.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#142

Post by marcosdumay »

kranke155 wrote: post #130
cdrini wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say for certain but I'm not so sure the people you're describing are a sizeable majority. I think most people are just watching news and doing their best. If a news site has a "C" rating on it -- which would require some sort of government regulation to enforce which would be a whole other thing -- which is then clickable and let's you see "exactly" what it has that rating ( eg "17 inaccuracies in last month…

If they weren’t a sizeable majority, I don’t think we’d be having the same kind of leaders we’re getting in the west tbh.

I large part of it is that the leader selection is highly oligopolized, and you are partially in denial about how undesirable the other candidates are. (Probably because you see the need to pick them, as they are the rational choice, but you can't feel aligned with their actual values, because they are horrible.)

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#143

Post by bsenftner »

jtwoodhouse wrote: post #40

I started my career as a reporter a decade ago. I can't tell you how many stories I filed that an editor twisted into something different to fit their narrative. There were also stories I was directed away from because they would alienate our audience. It's a narrative business.

I know some very famous people and have been in the press myself a few times. The general attitude among people the press covers is that reports of them, their business, and the reason they are in the press is distorted to the degree it's fabrication. The news is cat herding of economic waves various industries and power brokers are trying to create for their advantage. There is no "news" only economic manipulation, of every possible kind.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#144

Post by xpe »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #121
xpe wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong chance that bias will affect rankings, to some degree, but: 1. Bias is not all or nothing. 2. There is a large degree of commonality about baseline ethics and quality of life. Polarization accentuates wedge issues disproportionately. 3. There are classes of statements which can be factually assessed. 4. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. A step in the right direction combined with other…

My objection isn't that its good but not perfect, I don't think itd be good at all. So far everyone who's tried to be a neutral arbiter of truth has been a political hack, like politifact and groups like that. Training the public to trust things just because they got a good score from some agency is not going to improve their ability to think critically and be informed, the false sense of legitimacy (and the ability…

If a rater has a clear set of evaluation criteria and a moderation log, does that do enough to change your view on the value add?

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#145

Post by bsenftner »

outime wrote: post #54
cdrini wrote: post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

We should start understanding that "independent" rankings won't ever work. Let's not even get started with "fact-checking" places which we can count by dozens per country now, as they all have their own interpretations (or otherwise a single one alone would be enough). For such a thing to work, it needs to be funded. At the end, it doesn't matter if it comes from public or private hands, it's going to be leaning towa…

Well, step one requires the news receiver to have critical analysis capabilities they apply to the news they receive. That means education which instills critical thinking, which if you've noticed these days is treated like satanic worship by those in control of the entire education vertical.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#146

Post by gosub100 »

qbxk wrote: post #64
cdrini wrote: post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

Oh so news should work like science? Citations, references, peer reviews! I approve

Yeah cause no peer reviewed publications have ever committed fraud.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#147

Post by avodonosov »

jtwoodhouse wrote: post #40

I started my career as a reporter a decade ago. I can't tell you how many stories I filed that an editor twisted into something different to fit their narrative. There were also stories I was directed away from because they would alienate our audience. It's a narrative business.

Technically, how the narrative is established? What is the procedure?

When several news organizations follow the same narrative in a coordinated manner, is it because their editors just advertently sense "the party line"? Or the are some meetings where they are instructed? Or some written instructions distributed among them?

In Russian and Ukrainian practice I heard the term "themnik" - brief written instructions of how to present various themes.

Given that in the early post-soviet times, when this started, they all hired and learned from western (mostly american) political technologists, maybe this practice came from the west?

Have you ever saw or heard of such instructive, narrative establishing docs?

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#148

Post by zbentley »

boxed wrote: post #136
cdrini wrote: post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

You can't have news be a business. Period. It's really that simple. It's like having schools be a business, or healthcare, roads, regulation agencies, etc. You can't produce a system where the EPA gets its funding from the amount of pollution it stops for example. That's a perverse incentive. These types of organizations are by definition cost centers. And must be treated as such.

That gets tricky fast. News as nonprofit might work, but would likely have even more severe resourcing issues than smaller newsrooms are having today.

If news sources were publicly funded like schools, that compromises the very important news function of reporting on the government.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#149

Post by gosub100 »

passion__desire wrote: post #122
CuriouslyC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly the Daily Show/Last Week Tonight are the best news, because the news isn't vegetables to begin with, it's alluring toxic slop that makes us feel like shit when we consume it. At least TDS/LWT make us feel good while getting mildly (and mostly unnecessarily) informed.

One problem with mixing comedy with serious news is we undermine the gravity or seriousness with which we should respond. Hardtalk on BBC should be common format so that people go into the show with belief that these are not laughing matter

The other problem was the overwhelming bias. There was one approved narrative, and the comedians always made jokes that promoted it and disparaged the opposite.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#150

Post by benwerd »

This is a pretty bad take.

For example, multiple studies have shown that in communities that aren't addressed by a robust local news outlet, local corruption goes up. Having a good newsroom _does_ improve an understanding of what your representatives are up to, and a lack of information _does_ allow them to get up to more behind our backs.

I think the biggest failure of this piece is to make all news equivalent. Yes, cable news is junk; yes, many of the corporate newsrooms that churn out hundreds of articles a day are junk. They use engagement as a metric for success rather than finding ways to align themselves with impact and creating an informed, empowered electorate. That last thing - an informed, empowered electorate - is what it's all about.

Real journalism that is diligently undertaken in the public interest does make a real difference. (Should we know whether Clarence Thomas was taking corrupt bribes? Yes. Should we know how climate change is progressing? Yes. Should we know if the police are killing innocent people? Yes. Should we know that the police at the Uvalde school shooting hung around for over an hour doing nothing? Yes.) Telling people not to pay attention to the world around them results in an electorate who cannot meaningfully vote on real issues.

For those of us who build software, we need to know the factors that impact the lives of the people we're serving. We need to know the trends in the marketplaces and communities where we show up. The news is good for that, too.

Turn off cable news; pay more attention to non-profit news; go for long-form written journalism. Stay informed.

It's absolutely true that we take a psychic hit for doing so. I'd say that's more to do with the world than it is the media overall. Perhaps we should spend more time trying to make it better?

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