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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#141

Post by SoftTalker »

the_snooze wrote: post #98
bustling-noose wrote: post #62

About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…

When I'm out at a sit-down restaurant, I always make a mental note of everyone who has their phone out on the table. It's usually 50-50. Not necessarily using them, but within view, as if they're waiting for something else instead of prioritizing the people who took the time to be physically around them in the same place and time. No wonder lots of people feel disconnected. They forgot how to connect in even the most…

Sometimes I do that because it's just uncomfortable to sit with my phone in my pocket. I agree it's rude to use your phone while you're dining or conversing with a group.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#142

Post by ativzzz »

philip1209 wrote: post #66

The books the authors cite are great and worth reading. Some personal observations: - The USA lacks a unified cultural identity now. There are lots of reasons for this. But, it's considered taboo to express a love of the USA - which hurts our community + culture. - People put a lot of effort into work, and work is becoming more transactional. No more "life-long employment with the buddies" kind of situation. - Americ…

> But, it's considered taboo to express a love of the USA

I don't agree. Every sporting event still plays the national anthem and often has soldiers or military involvement or mentions

I see US flags all the time, all over the place.

There are certain forms of "love" of the USA that are more politically one-sided that may be more taboo if you live in an area where most people are on the other side.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#143

Post by imiric »

constantcrying wrote: post #54

No, absolutely not. Young people are more connected than they have ever been before, just now they are connected in some of the most unhealthy and detrimental manners possible. Instead of connecting with friends in real life, they form communities on social media, in discord channels, in video games, etc. The consequences are just barely starting to show themselves. As for the why, I think they are many reasons. The…

> The Internet is obviously an attractive and addictive place, but cities have gotten so much worse as well. Where I live the playgrounds I used to go to as a child are now full of drug dealers...

Oh, c'mon. The world didn't get scarier, and force us to retreat to the comforts of online interaction. If anything, most of the world is a safer place since the 1990s[1], which curiously coincides with the rise of the internet.

This is a complex topic that researchers can answer better. But personally, I think that the pseudosocial interaction where we can shout our thoughts into the ether without any real risk of consequence compared to meatspace is appealing enough for many people that it covers most of their needs for social activity. It's also the ideal safe haven for the hypersensitive newer generations.

I think the pendulum will swing back at some point, and we'll start rejecting online activities. But then again, we'll also continue to merge with technology, so all of this could be the tipping point, and we have to accept it as the new normal.

In any case, what is certain is that Big Tech needs to be heavily regulated, just as other Big industries were before it. The psychological manipulation and social experiments need to stop, and we need to better understand the effects all this groundbreaking technology has on our wellbeing and society as a whole. It's not like the future of our civilization depends on it, or anything...

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#144

Post by tarkin2 »

The lack of religion is a big factor. I'd argue as much as the internet.

Religious activity--putting aside the well-documented negatives--gives group identity, belonging, a welcoming atmosphere, an in-person place to socialise, associated group events and a connection to your geographic community.

The rush to abandon religion never replaced the essential in-person community it offered its adherents.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#145

Post by StopTheWorld »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ).

In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school.

In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it has only increased since that paper).

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#146

Post by snakeyjake »

masklinn wrote: post #39
chasebank wrote: post #24

The cause is having a tiny computer in your hand all day. It's so glaringly obvious.

The issue started long before that, it’s not like mental health was great in the 90s. Loss of third places, TV, necessity to move around for studies then jobs (and moving your kids along if / when you got them), increased cost of living, … are all massive contributing factors.

> Loss of third places

People keep bringing up the loss of third places.

Every time I look into it I come to the conclusion that there are more third places now than there has ever been in the history of humanity.

In the 80s and 90s there were no skate parks, there are now skate parks.

There are more bike and walking trails.

There are more libraries.

There are more community centers.

My local neighborhood is breaking ground on a new fire station in the fall, it will include a community center where in the past it was just a garage and bunk house for firefighters-- but give me any county in the entire country and I'll find a 40 year history of building things for public use. I just looked up the small (28k), impoverished ($45k/house), rural county in Indiana where my now-deceased grandparents lived and according to their charmingly retro county government website over the last 20 or so years they've built trails, parks, playgrounds, a new library, and... a skate park.

People are not lonely because there are fewer third places.

People are lonely because they're not going to the third places.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#147

Post by SoftTalker »

sameoldtune wrote: post #50
JohnFen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had an invite from friends and the activity didn't seem immediately interesting to me, I'd decline. I have seen many (usually younger) people make this mistake. The mistake is thinking that the point of the activity is the activity itself. It isn't. The point is the genuine social engagement. (Edited to add:) > I've since learned to say yes more Years ago, I learned to change my default answer to things from "…

Was just talking with a friend about this. The reason older people tend to play repetitive card games isn’t because they are captivating, it is just a thin excuse to spend a few relaxing hours together. After a few months of hesitation I’ve gotten some of my friends into playing simple games like euchre and hearts and the quality of our time together has gone up significantly.

IDK that hasn't been my experience. When I've gotten together with people to play euchre it's always people who are super competitive about it, get annoyed if you misplay a hand, and don't talk about anything except how good or bad their last hand was.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#148

Post by pickledish »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

If anyone's interesting in reading more along these lines (the weird state we've gotten into where everything in our lives needs to be viewed through an economic lens for some reason, and the damage it causes) -- check out the book "Capitalist Realism" by the late Mark Fisher -- I really enjoyed it!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6763725-capitalist-reali...

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#149

Post by hot_gril »

meowkit wrote: post #129
hot_gril wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything is economically viable if enough people want it.

Point == missed Its a tragedy of the commons style problem. The viability has to come from a group effort - as soon as there is a single entity running the show the economic incentives will warp or collapse the 3rd place into something different.

What single entity did you have in mind? An HOA will spend dues on parks, a regular city will spend taxes on parks. A luxury apartment will have common spaces or even activities. They make these expenditures because enough residents will pay extra for it. And a church will run community events paid for by donations. No "brought to you by Carl's Jr."

Tragedy of the commons is when there's no big entity with rules, and everyone does their own thing.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#150

Post by llm_trw »

silverquiet wrote: post #61
llm_trw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worrying about nuclear war was probably worse for mental health since you'd die quite quickly (if you were lucky), rather than some nebulous future were something's going to happen.

I'd rather be atomized by a nuke than die of heat-stroke in a wet bulb event after my air conditioning fails. I mean, I'd rather not die at all but given the options... I don't know about the kids these days; I'm not one of them, but I'm personally rather terrified of the future that we are careening into in regards to climate change.

Let me tell you about fall out and how the majority of people who die in a nuclear attack will feel the meat peel off their bones over two weeks of unimaginable agony with nothing that can be done for them.
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