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Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

stopkillinggames.com

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Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#141

Post by johnnyanmac »

NekkoDroid wrote: post #43
tokai wrote: post #33

I rarely think the market is the answer to anything. But this is one of the times were letting the market solve the problem it the actual fix. In the end nothing of value is lost when the Nth ubisoft project is taken offline. And if people keep buying them it is what it is. Triple A slob are not competing actual good games out of the market.

When you stop thinking about games as just entertainment but also as an art form you realize that a lot of art has already been lost to time. It's shit to regret down the line when you could have just prevented the loss of art at an earlier point in time. As much as I don't play a lot of AAA games due to how they either play or monetize, it is important to me to preserve them for future times considering I still play…

>When you stop thinking about games as just entertainment but also as an art form you realize that a lot of art has already been lost to time.

I do think games are art. I don't think most of society thinks of games or even most media as art. So that's already one social hurdle to jump.

There will be a few big artifacts, but most people won't care about preserving every single piece of media in existence.

>it is important to me to preserve them for future times considering I still play a lot of older games and even some games from before I was born.

No point in preserving servers with no on it. I still have PS1 discs in my room, but those are all single player experiences that don't depend on others to derive enjoyment from.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#142

Post by johnnyanmac »

mpalmer wrote: post #62
tokai wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all art needs to be preserved. Everything will be lost eventually, and efforts should be withheld for the worthwhile. People that don't work with preservation usually have a kneejerk feeling that we have to save everything for all time, but it is not feasable nor is it commendable.

> Everything will be lost eventually, and efforts should be withheld for the worthwhile If art was preserved solely on the basis of whether its contemporaries thought it was worthwhile, we'd be in real trouble.

been in trouble for millenia, in that case.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#143

Post by johnnyanmac »

Timon3 wrote: post #121
RHSeeger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all art, everywhere was kept forever, we're be in real trouble

Why, what trouble would we be in? And since we're apparently only dealing in absolutes - would we be in bigger trouble than we'd be in if no art, nowhere was kept for any amount of time?

physical art's problem is space. We literally can't hold everything. Go to any museum and see how there's probably another museum's worth of artifacts in the back, covered up, for various reasons.

Digital art's problem is saturation. You try to preserve everything withotu curation and you just get a huge mush to wade through. Ever try to sort out a game folder without relying on Steam? Imagine that 10,000 fold. You can have valuable art and spend a career as a digital archeaologist trying to derive the "best games" out of petabytes of crap.

>And since we're apparently only dealing in absolutes - would we be in bigger trouble than we'd be in if no art, nowhere was kept for any amount of time?

It's an interesting question. We'd be in a different situation, but I'm not sure if it'd be objectively better or worse. Without any circuses, the populace would turn to addressing the bread in their hands. This can cause sociatal reform or societal collapse.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#144

Post by johnnyanmac »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #59
tokai wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all art needs to be preserved. Everything will be lost eventually, and efforts should be withheld for the worthwhile. People that don't work with preservation usually have a kneejerk feeling that we have to save everything for all time, but it is not feasable nor is it commendable.

If I buy something I should have the choice whether I want to preserve it or not. There are people that collect bread tabs, I toss them but I was still enriched learning from those that do.

well you don't buy a server, you basically buy a key to accessing the server. It's no so different from a website in that regard and websites also shut down with no notice.

it's just that web pages are easier to backup than game servers.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#145

Post by petterroea »

cchi_co wrote: post #58
petterroea wrote: post #11

This is a great excuse to also ensure the legality of third party reverse-engineering as a legitimate and reasonable reaction to the unavailability of official support. I believe EU law already to a certain degree supports this. Just look at the situation Fisker Ocean Car owners are in at the moment - the company has gone bankrupt, and their fate is in the hands of whoever buys the assets. eSIMs may not be paid for,…

Sounds like a good idea that can end the problem with discontinuation of official support

It's not like people should expect or be entitled to people spending their free time providing a community replacement. But it often happens anyways, so why not protect the people who do it?

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#146

Post by Sakos »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #137
Sakos wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perverse incentives from a very small subset of users This is to the benefit of everybody now and in the future. It doesn't matter if only an insignificant fraction of people recognize the importance.

I'm not so optimistic. These are just games at the end of the day, and much bigger issues have had friction even if it's for the benefit of everyone. >It doesn't matter if only an insignificant fraction of people recognize the importance. that's literally how petitions work. If not enough people care, it doesn't even get looked at by Parliment. The first pass of this didn't look too hot.

I have no idea how you misinterpreted my comment so badly.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#147

Post by RHSeeger »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #143
Timon3 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, what trouble would we be in? And since we're apparently only dealing in absolutes - would we be in bigger trouble than we'd be in if no art, nowhere was kept for any amount of time?

physical art's problem is space. We literally can't hold everything. Go to any museum and see how there's probably another museum's worth of artifacts in the back, covered up, for various reasons. Digital art's problem is saturation. You try to preserve everything withotu curation and you just get a huge mush to wade through. Ever try to sort out a game folder without relying on Steam? Imagine that 10,000 fold. You c…

> physical art's problem is space. We literally can't hold everything

And it gets more interesting when you consider that "everything" is a lot closer to literal than one would expect. What is "art" is extremely subjective. I could go to a store that sells old things from houses and find a vintage toilet or door and call it art; because I think it's cool looking. Someone else could find a dozen houses in my town and call them art because they're historic in some way. Everything drawn by someone's child is art. You can't keep "all art" because we literally _can't_ keep all art. There's too much of it

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#148

Post by moogly »

oblio wrote: post #106
moogly wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily it doesn't really matter. At that size, it's at most a 400 W panel, so the energy it produces is rather negligible. It was always a "just because we can" feature.

Unless I'm mistaken, "sunroof" in this context doesn't mean solar panels, it's means that big sliding hatch in the roof of the car.

Oh what the... I hesitate to use the word "sense" here, but it does make sense if operating the "dog windows" requires a cloud connection, as stated. So all of "California Mode"?

How even in the whole what...

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#149

Post by bitwize »

Games aren't really things you can keep forever anymore. They're events, like concerts. Or like movies were before that piracy device, the VCR, was ruled legal in American courts -- something industry moguls still fulminate about (Jack Valenti saw it as the Boston Strangler for his industry until he died).

Get used to this new reality. Enjoy your gaming experiences when you have them.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#150

Post by Nullabillity »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #136
Nullabillity wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad, should have thought of that before taking on the dependency?

That's not how indies work. By using an engine like Unreal or Unity, you take on dozens of third party dependencies on top of whatever Epic's licenses are.

And Epic would have to sort that out unless they want to see their sales drop to 0 overnight…?
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