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Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

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Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#141

Post by renewiltord »

etempleton wrote: post #85
mysterydip wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the swimmers in the center lanes have any advantage by being furthest away from the wall-induced chop?

Yes, those on the outside will have choppier waters as the water bounces off the sides of the pools. The modern competition pools do a pretty good job of reducing this effect, but it is always there.

Could probably increase fairness by doubling the width and throwing away the last few lanes (leaving them empty). But would that incentivize the edges? I don't know.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#142

Post by MichaelBurjack »

khuey wrote: post #132
MichaelBurjack wrote: post #126

In addition to physical issues raised (7ft depth, configuration of sides), I wonder if there might be any other reasons that aren't mentioned at all in the article… Something causing these elite athletes to be a bit off their game? Whatever could it possibly be… - https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/07/31/us... - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/team-gb-swimmer-m... - https://www.theguardian…

That's not a very satisfying explanation because everyone seems to be slow and it's pretty unlikely that everyone has COVID.

Covid is a highly contagious virus that spreads and lingers in the air, and we have athletes in close quarters without any virus control procedures [1] (other than the Olympic organizers providing hand sanitizer [2], which is an odd choice for airborne virus prevention).

Given lack of testing and that many countries (including European countries) are seeing Covid surges right now, I think it's highly likely that most competitors are competing with either current or recent Covid infections affecting their peak performance capacity.

Edit: I wouldn't suggest it's the sole cause of performance issues. But for an entire article on the topic of swim performance to completely ignore multiple reports of viral infection from top performers seems a glaring omission.

-----

1: "The 29-year-old does not have to isolate from other athletes and does not have to test negative before competing again": https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40672610/olympics-2...

2: "For now, nothing has been put into place by the organizing committee … but hand sanitizer is available in its clinics and restaurants.": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2024-paris-olympics-covid-cases...

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#143

Post by morepork »

lacoolj wrote: post #96

So it's more shallow, which is a problem. Like if you trained for track on pavement vs rubber vs sand, you're going to have different results, even if "everyone has the same environment" not everyone's body will have the same relative response. I don't like that assumption that just because it's the same for everyone means the difference will affect everyone the same. Are France competition pools across the country j…

It's nowhere near the difference of a rubber all weather track vs pavement or sand, it's a difference of maybe 1-2%. In any sport different venues can have favourable vs unfavourable conditions that would exceed this

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#144

Post by phatfish »

hnburnsy wrote: post #133
morepork wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Paris they didn't want to build a white elephant swimming venue that will never get filled outside of the Olympics. So instead they converted an indoor stadium, the Paris La Défense Arena that is normally used for rugby and concerts. You can see in the timelapse video here[1] the pool being built above the surface. They built it to a depth of 2.15m, the minimum required is 2m, but the recommended depth is 3m. I ca…

Ummmm.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Aquatic_Centre

Paris La Défense Arena -- Aquatics (swimming, water polo finals)

Paris Aquatic Centre -- Aquatics (water polo preliminaries, diving, artistic swimming)

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#145

Post by dr_dshiv »

sandworm101 wrote: post #129
johnp314 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of lane effect, say for instance, re-running a race after let's say a weeks rest with the top finishers now nearest the side walls and the lowest finishers in the center lanes. Oh and for incentive, let's say the average of their two times determines the winners.

The human factor would make this very difficult. A more scientific test might be to use RC boats with tightly regulated power outputs, with a wave machine to ensure consistency.

Random assignment should make it easy to detect, depending on the size of the effect

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#146

Post by viraptor »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #92
viraptor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking on it exactly because there's no difference in sound, but the extreme audiophiles will claim they hear it anyway. https://ventiontech.com/products/toslink-to-mini-toslink-opt... - "gold-plated connectors resist corrosion for optimal signal transfer over time." - it's an optical cable!

There is an audible difference after being in a high temp high humidity environment for 5 years :)

Audible difference from an OPTICAL cable not corroding at ends? One where the gold plated parts are only the frame that holds it in the socket?

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#148

Post by beloch »

BobAliceInATree wrote: post #124
beloch wrote: post #121

If this is a "slow" pool, then should we toss world records from "fast" pools? There are a lot of other events where factors affecting performance aren't completely controlled. Perhaps comparing records across different times and places is meaningless.

No, in the same way that all Marathon records are set in only a few marathons which have very favorable conditions.

It's hard to control conditions for a Marathon, but what's to stop some future Olympic host from intentionally creating the fastest pool possible that wouldn't be objected to, just so they could watch "their" Olympics break all the records?

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#149

Post by manojlds »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

Why doesn't it affect more the people closer to the sides?

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#150

Post by creaghpatr »

ranie93 wrote: post #131
tweetle_beetle wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert, buy there also seems to be loads more stuff lying on the bottom of the shallow floor than I remember from previous Olympics. Not even sure exactly what it is - large white panels and other equipment that the swimmers don't look that far off touching when underwater (not the robot cameras which are relatively unobtrusive).

digital lap counters to help the swimmers keep track

Thats pretty nice, when I swam the 500 I would have to lift my head to see the lap counter dropping the sign in the pool which messes with your head position
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