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Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

culture.pl

141–150 of 153 posts

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except employees do in fact benefit from innovations and improvements, and most inventions and innovations of the past 100 years come from capitalist, not socialist, countries. To the contrary, soviet orgs paid set awards for "rationalizing suggestions", and without the market value control 99% of them were of course bullshit.

> To the contrary, soviet orgs paid set awards for "rationalizing suggestions" Yes, but very often someone did that rationalizing suggestion and the manager got the reward. Most people suggesting improvements stopped after one small improvement when treated like that, so whole idea was doomed to fail by poor execution.

Bad manager problem does not explain persistent technological lagging of USSR. There were good managers too, after all. The central reason is that any significant innovation implementation is a sort of travel to terra incognita. It's hard, and risky. So it requires someone who expects to get a reward big enough to pay for all the pain. Socialist/communist approach is not compatible with it on fundamental level as big rewards means inequality. Plenty of Soviet engineers proposed ineteresting ideas, and many of them were socialistically rewarded for them (e.g. "gramota" with Lenin's face, and maybe a small bonus), but very few people wanted to risk implementing those ideas. It was always better to rely on a low-risk approach: blueprints stolen from the West.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#142
post #137
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German genocide of other nations consisted of exterminating weak people and forced labor for the strong. They integrated people with "Aryan features" into their society and we're slowly getting rid of the rest. Soviets exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers - the very people who could fight back. They integrated poor and weak. Their idea was to melt the remaining people into one nation. This is a form…

Jesus freaking Christ, read the German plans for Slavs - it's all public information. They were going to starve and work them all until they are dead, and then populate the lands with Germans. Poles are Slavs. To draw moral equivalence between Soviets and Hitler is idiotic. If it wasn't for the Soviets, you'd be writing this in German, or (depending on your ethnicity) you wouldn't exist at all.

Of course you can draw a moral equivalence. You can't plan[0], invade a country[1] perform genocide on it's people, install and support puppet government and only let go when your own country totally imploded and expect anything other than disdain.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair, the idea was abandoned back in the 1930s.

The idea that was abandoned in 30s, was of the world revolution happening so soon that it should be prioritized over trade, and diplomacy with capitalist countries. It was replaced with flexible strategy of long-term struggle for world domination which USSR faithfully followed until its demise

The USSR was not the only country vying for domination.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#144
post #137
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German genocide of other nations consisted of exterminating weak people and forced labor for the strong. They integrated people with "Aryan features" into their society and we're slowly getting rid of the rest. Soviets exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers - the very people who could fight back. They integrated poor and weak. Their idea was to melt the remaining people into one nation. This is a form…

Jesus freaking Christ, read the German plans for Slavs - it's all public information. They were going to starve and work them all until they are dead, and then populate the lands with Germans. Poles are Slavs. To draw moral equivalence between Soviets and Hitler is idiotic. If it wasn't for the Soviets, you'd be writing this in German, or (depending on your ethnicity) you wouldn't exist at all.

If Russians were so worried about Slavs being exterminated why were they sending supplies and resources to Nazis until the day German invasion?

Oh now I get it.. Poles and other eastern European nations should be thankful to Russians for killing millions of them and enslaving the rest instead of just exterminating everyone. Got it.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#145
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German genocide of other nations consisted of exterminating weak people and forced labor for the strong. They integrated people with "Aryan features" into their society and we're slowly getting rid of the rest. Soviets exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers - the very people who could fight back. They integrated poor and weak. Their idea was to melt the remaining people into one nation. This is a form…

> exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers So did the Nazis, in higher quantities too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

The question is not if the Nazis were the bad guys, but if the Russians were bad. I think the answer is pretty simple. If anyone has any doubts they should ask millions of starved Ukrainians, thousands of killed Polish officers, hundreds of thousands of killed eastern Europeans and millions of people sent to gulags. Oh wait, you can't...wonder why? Probably because Soviets were really such a nice group of people.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#146
post #144
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus freaking Christ, read the German plans for Slavs - it's all public information. They were going to starve and work them all until they are dead, and then populate the lands with Germans. Poles are Slavs. To draw moral equivalence between Soviets and Hitler is idiotic. If it wasn't for the Soviets, you'd be writing this in German, or (depending on your ethnicity) you wouldn't exist at all.

If Russians were so worried about Slavs being exterminated why were they sending supplies and resources to Nazis until the day German invasion? Oh now I get it.. Poles and other eastern European nations should be thankful to Russians for killing millions of them and enslaving the rest instead of just exterminating everyone. Got it.

USSR did not “kill millions of Slavs” in Eastern Europe. You’re severely confused. Hitler, however, did. Fully extrapolating this line of propaganda into the future, 30-40 years from now people will believe that an amateur Austrian painter wanted European unity, but bloody dictator Stalin unfortunately got in the way. And I think that’s exactly the narrative which will dominate in the future based on the current trends.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#147
post #146
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Russians were so worried about Slavs being exterminated why were they sending supplies and resources to Nazis until the day German invasion? Oh now I get it.. Poles and other eastern European nations should be thankful to Russians for killing millions of them and enslaving the rest instead of just exterminating everyone. Got it.

USSR did not “kill millions of Slavs” in Eastern Europe. You’re severely confused. Hitler, however, did. Fully extrapolating this line of propaganda into the future, 30-40 years from now people will believe that an amateur Austrian painter wanted European unity, but bloody dictator Stalin unfortunately got in the way. And I think that’s exactly the narrative which will dominate in the future based on the current tren…

What's more likely to happen in 30-40 years is what you're trying to do - make people forget that there were two equally evil empires - Nazis and Soviets. You want people to remember only Nazis.

The Soviets killed millions - there is no way to deny it. Holodomor alone resulted in 3-5 mln deaths. At least one million were murdered in Russia alone. In total, up to 60 mln people are estimated to have died at the hands of the Soviets. Millions more were forced out of their homes, raped and maimed.

There is only one difference between Germans and Japanese on the one hand and Russians on the other. Germans and Japanese admitted to these atrocities and apologized for them. Since the end of WW2, they have not attacked anyone else.

Russians, on the other hand, are still trying to whitewash the crimes committed by the Soviets, and they keep invading other countries. We can only hope they will either grow up and join the civilized world this century or the Russian Federation collapses.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#148
post #139
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In september there were about 300k soldiers in the parts that soviets later occupied. If you don't think that would slow Germans down you're wrong. But more importantly during the occupation Soviets killed thousands of people in Katyn and other places, and sent close to 2 mln to gulags. They stole art, books and removed machines from factories. They raped women. And they kept doing all these dispicable acts even afte…

Poland also cooperated with Nazis before 1941. So did much of the rest of Europe and Britain. And no, it wouldn't have slowed Germans down, just like it did not slow them down in 1939. In general, European countries did not put up much of a fight, and some (Romania and Finland, for example) explicitly and willingly fought on Hitler's side. As to the crimes, name me an Axis or Allied country that did not commit horrif…

You're confusing cooperation like normal countries do with actively supporting murderous regime. Soviets actively supported Nazis during the WW2.

As far as Allied country that did not commit horrific war crimes:

- France

- Poland

- Czechoslovakia

- Belgium

- Luxembourg

- Netherlands

- Norway

- Greece

- Yugoslavia

- Ethiopia

- Philippines

- Canada

- Australia

- New Zealand

- India

- South Africa

- Brazil

- Mexico

- Mongolia

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#149
post #148
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland also cooperated with Nazis before 1941. So did much of the rest of Europe and Britain. And no, it wouldn't have slowed Germans down, just like it did not slow them down in 1939. In general, European countries did not put up much of a fight, and some (Romania and Finland, for example) explicitly and willingly fought on Hitler's side. As to the crimes, name me an Axis or Allied country that did not commit horrif…

You're confusing cooperation like normal countries do with actively supporting murderous regime. Soviets actively supported Nazis during the WW2. As far as Allied country that did not commit horrific war crimes: - France - Poland - Czechoslovakia - Belgium - Luxembourg - Netherlands - Norway - Greece - Yugoslavia - Ethiopia - Philippines - Canada - Australia - New Zealand - India - South Africa - Brazil - Mexico - Mo…

United States did actually support Hitler up to a point. USSR boycotted the Olympics in 1936 - United States participated. IBM sold stuff to Hitler, as did Ford and General Motors. Henry Ford was a big fan of Hitler, and his views on the Jews. The US-Nazi Germany trade did not fully cease until 1941, about the same time when Soviet trade with Nazi Germany ceased because Germany broke the pact and attacked. In fact, as far as I can tell, all European countries without any exceptions traded with Hitler all the way until at least 1939, or in some cases even later. Some nominally "neutral" countries, such as the Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland and some others, traded with Nazi Germany throughout the war. Your point is?

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#150
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a half millennium ago it was the largest state in Europe by area. Since then, the country has been attacked and dismembered more than pretty much To be fair the country become entirely dysfunctional (mainly due to internal reasons) long before it was dismembered. By the 1700s while technically retaining most of its territory it basically became just a "playground" for Russia, Swedish and German armies to fight…

I’m not super interested in arguing about the finer details. The point remains that Poland was colonized, destroyed, and occupied from roughly the late 19th century until the 1990s, and so anyone blaming the lack of development there on occupying forces is in a large sense correct. The fact that Poland today, unoccupied, is rapidly approaching the development level of leading EU countries further emphasizes the point…

> rapidly approaching the development level of leading EU countries further emphasizes the point.

Well same applies to pretty much all of Central/Eastern Europe, and my point is that events prior to the 1900s didn't necessarily have a huge impact on the current situation (look at Finland). It's not like the Russian Empire in the 1800s was particularly more oppressive towards the overwhelming majority of the population or mismanaged the country to higher degree than the Polish nobility that preceded them (of course only in relative terms).

Napoleon winning/not losing as bad might have changed significantly everything but Poland's problems in the 1600s and the 1700s were primarily caused by internal issues.

Being independent alone is often not enough (e.g Portugal/Spain were left completely behind the rest of Western Europe economically and even socially until the mid to late 20th century).

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