More delays for Euston's HS2 station • Hacker News Board

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#141

Post by alias_neo » Mon, Jul 29, 2024, 8:28 AM UTC

panick21_ wrote: post #132

alias_neo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already pointed out that may have been the wrong phrase, but, I'm not suggesting anyone's winning, but plenty are losing by stupid decisions consistently being made, that disproportionately affect the under-privileged. I'm not talking about drivers vs cyclists, or whatever, I'm talking about people who _need_ to drive for their livelihood; it shouldn't be reserved for those of us who can afford the annual insura…

I dont disgree with you on some points. But using 'war on drivers' is very politocally charged slogen that stands for opposition the pretty much anything to with anything other then 'more highways'. Its literally a far right wing slogan. I agree that there are lots of unneed subsidies for rich electric car buyers. And investment for those people. Parking however geneally should be far more expensive, they are massive…

> Its literally a far right wing slogan

Well today I learned something; and I'm about as far from far right as one can be.

> What things do you think should be done (or not done) for poor drivers?

What you've said makes sense, and I agree with it all. As for poor drivers, a quick thought would be: We make public transport so good they don't need to drive, and for those who must, perhaps subsidise some purpose-built EVs (small vans, milk floats etc) that enable them to work (and in many cases provide an important service).

None of that is a short term goal, but I don't see any progress towards it, even in the medium term, try not to make driving for work unaffordable, but perhaps restrict the driving of "problem" vehicles to work-only; not everyone can cycle or get a bus to work, and not everyone can work from home.

It seems to be the status quo in this country (and probably others) to push on with banning/restricting things that are bad, for brownie points, without actually doing anything about replacing the purpose they serve.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#142

Post by alias_neo » Mon, Jul 29, 2024, 8:56 AM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #78

alias_neo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice attack there, if a little ignorant. The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely o…

>attack Damn, what a way to prove my point! Even opinions in an online forum are "attack" :) The simple fact is that (1) Drivers are subsidised by the state and by all of us, directly through such freebies as road construction and maintenance (which is horrendously expensive) and indirectly through such nice externalities that society must bear, such as the tens of thousands of deaths yearly (2-3 million worldwide) f…

> roads are first-class, then sidewalks, bus stops, cycle "lanes", etc, are an afterthought that must bend to the car traffic space, if they exist at all

I agree, and it's not right. Perhaps see some of my other points to see that we're not disagreeing with each other, I just phrased my initial point poorly due to misunderstanding of the term "war on drivers", which I don't be using again.

> Look I don't want to "defund roads", I'd already be happy if a tiny fraction of the money and attention that goes to driving would be devoted to other forms of transport.

I have no problem with "defund roads" as such, but I'd like to see something suitable and workable in their place before that.

I don't think ploughing on with unfair costs, ICE bans and electrification in spite of it all, is the solution; we'll just be left with more expensive, less productive ways to get around that cause more damage in other ways (EVs are terrifying as a pedestrian or cyclist), the potential for lithium fires, more devastating crashes, battery lifetimes, etc, and most half decent EVs are priced in the "luxury" vehicle category.

My one minor ask, if I could have one thing _now_? Update legislation to make privately owning and using e-scooters a thing on the roads.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#143

Post by willyt » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

laurencerowe wrote: post #128

willyt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would make more sense for Euston to be a deep level station and for HS2 to continue onto the mainline to Portsmouth/Bournemouth which have a similar population to Birmingham. I don’t think there will be the stomach to build a new high speed line but they could electrify the current line with overhead wires and replace the current fast trains with HS2 services. If Euston were a through station it would only need 4…

I think the difficulty of this approach is the huge imbalance in population north and south of London. While the Portsmouth/Southampton/Bournemouth area is around 2M, the Birmingham area is about 5M and HS2 will likely also end up serving trains from Manchester and Liverpool (combined 7M) and Glasgow (2M). There just aren't enough places south of London for all those trains to go.

Yes, you would probably run some trains empty to a carriage sidings south of London to be cleaned and restocked.