New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#141

Post by briguyd » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:01 PM UTC

54mf wrote: post #133

These days, I purchase laptops with a life expectancy of around 2-3 years. By then, the tech will have advanced to far that I'll want a new one anyway, and prices are dropping to the point where I can justify spending $1000-1500 on a device I use 10 hours or more a day, and for my primary source of income. These days, if I wanted more RAM, I'd just buy a new machine.

The new Macbook isn't $1000-1500, its $2200+.

>These days, if I wanted more RAM, I'd just buy a new machine.

Seems like a waste of money for something that's an easy $100 upgrade on pretty much every other computer in use today.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#142

Post by JackC » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:02 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #124

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle.

In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#143

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:03 PM UTC

wensing wrote: post #108

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

I've had 5 Apple laptops since 2001 and have never had to replace anything. Average time of ownership has only been 2 years, though. Because of the resale value, I've found it's pretty effective to sell the 2-year old and put it towards a new one.

[deleted]

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#144

Post by natesm » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:04 PM UTC

briguyd wrote: post #139

jwr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for profanity. Why the strong emotions? To make a laptop this small and thin with this much stuff inside, you have to get rid of certain elements. Before calling people names I'd suggest you check if it is at all possible to fit two (you'd want TWO, right?) SODIMM slots in the space available. Same goes for the battery — when I saw the first pictures of the internals, I said "well, they finally got rid of the…

And what am I supposed to do if I don't want to spend $2200 on a computer that only lasts me two years? My laptops usually last me 3-4 years, at least, after a hard drive and RAM upgrade, as well as a new battery.

Accept that you may not be the target market?

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#145

Post by AlisdairO » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:05 PM UTC

stevejabs wrote: post #106

powrtoch wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say iOS already works like this. They push out OS updates to devices not capable of running them properly, and provide no easy path to roll back. Many non-technical users will just think their "old" phone has "gotten slow", as if that's the inevitable course that products take as they age. So they buy a new device. The App Store only makes this worse, since at any given time you can only download the most rec…

I think your logic here is very flawed. I can name a ton of people who've owned only 1 or 2 iPhones since they've released. However that isn't even what I'm arguing about. Apple makes (in my opinion) a very smart decision to limit some features to only newer phones. Think about when iOS4 came out, it was only fully supported for the iPhone 4 and 3GS. Backgrounding on the 3G was a nightmare to memory and performance..…

I suspect that that he's talking more about the update to the 3G that rendered the phone almost unusably slow for a substantial proportion of users. Unfortunately they never did bother to fix it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#146

Post by ioquatix » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:05 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #123

taligent wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need to understand that you have become an edge case. The 1%. People just aren't using Firewire, Optical Drives and Ethernet like they use to. And compromising the entire computer just to satisfy a minority isn't good business. And absolutely isn't Apple's style. Most things are more expensive when you aren't buying the mainstream option. In your case having to buy the Superdrive, Firewire and GigE adapters.

You just need to understand that you have become an edge case. It's called the Macbook Pro . Firewire is huge in cameras still. Optical drives are still big in AV work. Ethernet is still important in corporate networks. By default, professionals are not mainstream. This is a 100% consumer laptop. Calling it "Pro" is just disingenuous when there's not a single professional aspect about it.

No they aren't¹.

(1) 95% of statistics are made up.

I'm sure Apple, who actually sell the machines, and collect statistics, know what their users are after.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#147

Post by dordoka » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:05 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #104

cbsmith wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still kind of scratching my head about the use of SATA given these custom connectors. It keeps driver development simple, but at a cost in performance.

Well, not only driver development but also controller development. SATA is a standard where you can go buy the standard components. The connector probably has the same data lanes as a SATA connector, just a different form factor. Most of the space saving come from not having an enclosure like harddrives do - something which only words with SSDs since they have no moving parts and are thus dust-resistant.

Yep, AnandTech did a review analyzing the SSD connector from the Air. Check it out: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5854/asus-zenbook-ssd-and-appl...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#148

Post by stouset » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:06 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #124

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

> Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

The elitism here is just disgusting.

I suppose all the graphic designers, photographers, programmers, and even just plain old novice users who love Apple products should just pack their bags and go back to pencils and paper. After all, if they're not doing any kind of serious computing, we really ought not cater to their needs, wants, or desires.

Computers are obviously only for people running batch processes with 95%+ CPU and I/O utilization.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#149

Post by sausagefeet » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:07 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #124

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Why would I run any serious computation on a glorified iPad? I have a MacBook Air and it's great for its purpose: a very light, very portable, thin terminal. Running anything that is seriously bounded by CPU or I/O would be silly.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#150

Post by orangecat » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

taligent wrote: post #68

polshaw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to see this as anything but a planned obsolescence, anti-3rd party power grab given the minute additional space required to use a replaceable RAM stick. The SSD is on an add in board, also between the main board and base.

That minute additional space would have made the ENTIRE laptop thicker. And guess what. 99% of people would trade thinness over ability to use third party RAM.

And guess what. 99% of people would trade thinness over ability to use third party RAM.

For MBP buyers, I doubt it. Lots of them are desktop replacements that don't move much.