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No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

fourthamendment.com

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Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#141

Post by Brian_K_White »

ramses0 wrote: post #136
inejge wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that actual history supports that assertion. 30 years ago, cellular networks were really taking off and people were starting to use mobile phones en masse. Always on, pinging the base stations, delivering that data to equally sociopathic and beholden carriers. The public was not up in arms. What's changed in the meantime, aside from the richness and granularity of location data, is awareness of the pote…

No. The _ability_ to exploit it "en-masse" didn't exist 30 years ago. Random dell advertisement shows 16mb RAM (max 64mb), and 450mb HD. https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/49o9tm/dell_opti... Keep in mind, these are Mb, not Gb! Nowadays with a raspberry pi and a 128gb SD card you can go to town on "all location data for the last year for all American cell phones". Back in 1994, even coordinating reliable cen…

Well, in the musket era, private individuals owned ships with canons that could reach right into the middles of cities.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#142

Post by Brian_K_White »

dotancohen wrote: post #89
nonrandomstring wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's met with ridicule now, but the value of ridicule has slumped in 30 years. Ian Levy, when he was at NCSC spoke about "shame as a weapon against Big Tech". But he missed a crucial flaw - they do not give a fuck. Shame and ridicule only work in societies where people have dignity, self-respect, mutuality and care. It's true that nobody has any reasonable expectation of privacy when using a Google smartphone. But th…

> shame as a weapon against Big Tech Shame is far more often used as a weapon promoting Big Tech. I am constantly ridiculed for not having Facebook or Whatsapp accounts, and many people that I meet are suspicious of me. Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

The only woman worth meeting will obviously not use Whatsapp either.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#143

Post by steelframe »

lucianbr wrote: post #46
steelframe wrote: post #29

I run GrapheneOS on my phone and have all location permissions denied for everything except for (offline) Organic Maps. I also make it a habit of keeping airplane mode enabled except on the (very) rare occasion when I need to make an outbound phone call while out of the house. With the recent revelations about the triangulated location data that AT&T left exposed for all of its customers I don't feel like this is an…

So you have a mobile phone but you configured it so that you are unreachable when you are not at home? I'm all for privacy, but people being able to call me is hugely conveninent, and I really don't want to give it up. We need a better solution.

People can still call me and leave a message. I'll receive their message when I feel like it, not when they feel like it. It's really not all that terrible a thing. You should try it sometime.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#144

Post by steelframe »

dotancohen wrote: post #89
nonrandomstring wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's met with ridicule now, but the value of ridicule has slumped in 30 years. Ian Levy, when he was at NCSC spoke about "shame as a weapon against Big Tech". But he missed a crucial flaw - they do not give a fuck. Shame and ridicule only work in societies where people have dignity, self-respect, mutuality and care. It's true that nobody has any reasonable expectation of privacy when using a Google smartphone. But th…

> shame as a weapon against Big Tech Shame is far more often used as a weapon promoting Big Tech. I am constantly ridiculed for not having Facebook or Whatsapp accounts, and many people that I meet are suspicious of me. Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

> Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

Drop the "without Whatsapp." It's cleaner.

If I ever feel like meeting a woman again our first encounter won't be on a fucking phone app. And that will be just fine.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#145

Post by jmward01 »

rossjudson wrote: post #61
jmward01 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/3 of active google users is a lot of people to opt into giving away their privacy. Either they actually don't understand what they did, understand but were forced in some way or understand and truly believe the value of the service was worth the privacy invasion. It is pure speculation on my part but my guess is that the first two reasons dwarf the third. The decision in question though would, in my view, only have…

Do you carry a smartphone?

I believe choice two covers your implications. Not having a smartphone greatly impacts daily life and would make earning a living more of a challenge too. My argument is not that people shouldn't use these apps/devices, it is that because they are integral to daily life it shouldn't be allowed to abuse the user's privacy. In essence, people are given a false 'choice' which is just insult to injury and gives legal cover for abusing someone's privacy.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#146

Post by jffry »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #139
barroomhero wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using Android and do not have the cloud icon? Can you share a screenshot?

Screenshot would show the users current location, and would not tell you anything that the directions didn't tell you. I followed the directions in that comment and confirm that I see what is described. A cloud icon in a top nav bar, on the right side, with a slash through it in my case as backup sync is off.

Appreciate the concern, but it was easy enough to zoom the map onto an empty part of the ocean and conceal any personal info.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#147

Post by jmward01 »

gruez wrote: post #59
jmward01 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/3 of active google users is a lot of people to opt into giving away their privacy. Either they actually don't understand what they did, understand but were forced in some way or understand and truly believe the value of the service was worth the privacy invasion. It is pure speculation on my part but my guess is that the first two reasons dwarf the third. The decision in question though would, in my view, only have…

Have you considered the possibility that the average person doesn't care that much about privacy? That's entirely consistent with other things you can observe, like the lack of response to the Snowden leaks, or how commonly excuses like "nothing to hide" are invoked.

I believe choice three covers this possibility so, yes, I explicitly considered it and gave my view that I think the other two choices, in my opinion, likely dwarf the third. Further, I think the Snowden leaks and google privacy abuses are likely linked. It isn't that people don't care, it is that they don't believe their choice matters or that there will be protections if they take the other choice. If your privacy is going to be abused weather you use the feature or not, why not use the feature? It is the only rational 'choice'. Things like the Snowden leaks show that there is, unfortunately, likely a lot of truth to this view.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#148

Post by dotancohen »

steelframe wrote: post #144
dotancohen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shame as a weapon against Big Tech Shame is far more often used as a weapon promoting Big Tech. I am constantly ridiculed for not having Facebook or Whatsapp accounts, and many people that I meet are suspicious of me. Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

> Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp. Drop the "without Whatsapp." It's cleaner. If I ever feel like meeting a woman again our first encounter won't be on a fucking phone app. And that will be just fine.

I get enough matches and interesting conversations. It's moving that conversation to a different medium that is problematic when they want to see "who you are" first and you have no Facebook to show them, and even not Whatsapp to write to them.

For what it's worth, mentioning Telegram is even worse because that application is associated with drugs in our country.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#149

Post by dotancohen »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #142
dotancohen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shame as a weapon against Big Tech Shame is far more often used as a weapon promoting Big Tech. I am constantly ridiculed for not having Facebook or Whatsapp accounts, and many people that I meet are suspicious of me. Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

The only woman worth meeting will obviously not use Whatsapp either.

Hard disagree, I've met some terrific women on Tinder. Terrific both in and out of the sack.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#150

Post by steelframe »

jiveturkey wrote: post #74
steelframe wrote: post #29

I run GrapheneOS on my phone and have all location permissions denied for everything except for (offline) Organic Maps. I also make it a habit of keeping airplane mode enabled except on the (very) rare occasion when I need to make an outbound phone call while out of the house. With the recent revelations about the triangulated location data that AT&T left exposed for all of its customers I don't feel like this is an…

do note that while your location MAY not be shared, the absence of location information for when you turn on airplane mode reveals at least when you left and returned to the house. i was worried also that airplane mode may not actually disable the radio but at least one random google result (from reddit, not graphene themselves) says it does.

> reveals at least when you left and returned to the house.

Sure, the neighbors' cloud-connected doorcams reveal that too. Although I do enable airplane mode here and there while I'm still at my house whenever I don't want to be disturbed for a couple of hours, and I don't always remember to disable airplane mode the instant I walk through my front door, so that's not terribly clean signal for "he left the house at this time and returned at that."

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