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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#141

Post by robocat »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #108
janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

It’s actually super easy to do but the public will hate it. Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price. That 2% cashback you get for using your Amex isn’t due to Amex generosity. That’s literally what retailers pay. Right now I will absolutely use my cc for anything I can. It’s literally cheaper than cash and users of cash subsidise all my purchases. The only way to fix this is to force…

edited: ignore this comment please, I totally misunderstood the comment!

> Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price.

You must be a rich person that supports monopolies! And clearly you know nothing about low margin retail businesses. If your profit margin is 5% and the credit card fees are 2.5% then you are saying profit should be split 50%/50% with Visa/Mastercard.

In New Zealand originally the contract between the credit card company and the marchandiser said that the marchandiser couldn't charge a different amount for cash - an indirect way to force retailers to soak up the credit card fees. That clause was eventually outlawed here, for good reason. Your suggestion is to write the opposite law!

The extra fees for credit cards are great. It is the customer's choice to pay them or not!

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#142

Post by stavros »

sofixa wrote: post #129
stavros wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that there's no such guarantee.

That's what I'm saying. Those are the things that need to be fixed, not cash mandates.

But there can't be any such guarantee, because a centralized system is too easy to take control of. If a government at some point wants to freeze your assets, you're done. With cash, at least you have some options.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#143

Post by ryandrake »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #113
ryandrake wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, everyone in the population of Canada who disagreed with the ruling elite's opinions was personally "strong-armed" and "targeted"? Or only a subset of them? If it was just a subset, could there have been anything that distinguished much of that subset apart from the rest of the people who weren't "targeted?" Maybe some event they took part in or helped?

Yes, everyone in all of Canada who disagreed with the ruling elite's opinions at the time saw themselves strong-armed and targeted by both legislation and vitriol from public officials. The greater the perceived threat to destabilizing belief in the elite opinion from any subset, the more severe the measures taken - as we saw, including unreasonable wartime actions to force compliance.

Well, since I don't live in Canada, I'm just going to have to hit the eject button and trust you that every single person in the country holding a particular political belief, likely tens of millions, were personally and directly targeted by the government with enforcement action, as ridiculous as that sounds.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#144

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

gary_0 wrote: post #97
pelorat wrote: post #67

> Payments Canada, found that a majority of respondents were worried about the prospect of cashless stores and want to maintain the option to use cash — which is free from bank fees I mean, that is the problem right there. We don't generally have that problem in Europe because we don't rely on credit cards. Here's there no extra fee for using Apple Pay or Google Wallet. Pay with cash, your card, NFC... it's all the s…

There's a debit card system in Canada called Interac that should be free, but depending on the bank and account type, the bank will give you a very limited number of transactions per month (like 10 or 20). After that, every time you use your card you get charged a significant fee. Canadians get ridiculously nickel-and-dimed by banks, telecoms, retail, etc, compared to most other countries, which is part of why our co…

This is weird. I've never been charged a fee for using Interac. Sure, there are accounts for which you are discouraged from transacting daily, but this is true in the United States as well, in my experience. No one is being forced to use an inappropriate account type as a daily driver. Most accounts have a minimum balance requirement, which is usually pretty low, to avoid any fees. ATM fees on the other hand are a different story.

In other words, it's trivial to maintain an account and use Interac for... everything. I know of many folks who do not even have, and have never had, a credit card.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#145

Post by adamiscool8 »

nick_ wrote: post #132
adamiscool8 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stuff they were protesting was very real, and those measures specifically caused disruption to hundreds of thousands of people's lives and sleep for months on end. The government turning to wartime measures so that privileged Ottawans living in some of the most affluent areas around the nation's capital can withstand a few honks for a few weeks is absolutely preposterous.

[flagged]

>Dennis: Think about it. She’s out in the middle of nowhere with some dude she barely knows. She looks around her, what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. “Oh, there’s nowhere for me to run, what am I gonna do, say no?”

>Mac: Okay…that seems really dark though.

>Dennis: No, no, it’s not dark. You’re misunderstanding me, bro.

>Mac: I think I am.

>Dennis: Yeah, you are. ‘Cause if the girl said no, then the answer obviously is no. The thing is that she’s not gonna say no, she’d never say no…because of the implication.

>Mac: Now, you said that word “implication” a couple of times. What implication?

>Dennis: The implication that things might go wrong for her if she refuses to sleep with me. Now, not that things are gonna go wrong for her, but she’s thinking that they will.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#146

Post by purpleidea »

wvenable wrote: post #72

A little context for Americans: Canada implemented chip and pin debit cards across the country in the 90s. Pretty much overnight, paying by check(cheque) disappeared and nearly all businesses took debit cards. So Canadians have been used to paying by card for decades now. COVID put the nail in the coffin of any remaining cash-only businesses.

Canadian here, lots of business only take cash. We care about our privacy, although it's rare to find say a grocery store or gas station that doesn't accept cards too.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#147

Post by lupusreal »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #100
lupusreal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sleep deprivation is torture under the Geneva Convention. It's rightfully considered a war crime. You don't get to do that to other people. Not in my idea of a civil society.

[flagged]

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#148

Post by mandmandam »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #131
mandmandam wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument was used (a lot) to decry suffragette protests and desegregation protests. I for one am glad that women and black people didn't take it too seriously. You may want to read some MLK - he had some very clear words about the liberal who demands civility in the face of oppression.

So MLK and the suffragettes blockaded the town square and blew truck horns all night. Got it. Oh, wait, no, they voluntarily sacrificed their freedom and were arrested, beaten, and tortured for their beliefs. I guess you're confused.

Suffragettes did block roads, yes.

So did MLK.

Lol.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#149

Post by ekanes »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #93
janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

The wiki article you linked specifically says it's for more then war like conditions. "take extraordinary temporary measures to respond to public welfare emergencies, public order emergencies..."

Totally fair. A better criticism of the government's choice might be whether or not the trucker protest constituted a legitimate emergency.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#150

Post by elforce002 »

sofixa wrote: post #123
stavros wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an even playing field going to help with the fact that you need permission to spend your money?

If there's a guarantee that, within reason (by that I mean, if you're literally trafficking people or something of the like, that's not reasonable), you can spend your money, what's the issue?

What happened in Canada strongly indicates that a cashless society is as bad as it sounds. China did it and, well, we don't have to guess what happened next. Canada, a Western country with lots of "freedoms", did what it did because those truckers, etc... were a "threat" to "democracy".

I advocate for every form of payment to be conducted without restrictions: cash, deposits, debit, credit, crypto, etc... That's true freedom, not eliminate all options but credit/debit.

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