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Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

theguardian.com

141–150 of 192 posts

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#141
post #67
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what useful thing does a smartphone do during school hours?

What useful things could a smartphone do during school hours. You have a literal internet connected computer with any function you could care to name, interactive touch screen display, full sound with headphones being provided by the student . The situation we have now is that there are few apps that are suitable for a classrooms, even fewer which teachers would be allowed to use and none which are endorsed or includ…

with [1], you already said it. iPads serve that function. Have these really improved classroom education, or is it just a more convoluted, fidgety way to get through the materials?

> There is no reason that a students phone couldn't become the world's most amazing educational too

Or, some new, advanced technology exists, therefore, because it is new and advanced, it needs to be applied. This is an affliction.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#142
Source: I am a parent of child who has just finished GCSEs. We live in the London commuter belt.

The hope that stopping phones in school will help the mental health issues that children are facing today is a ridiculous hallucination. The second paragraph of the article states "in the hope of also addressing the downsides of their use outside the school gates". Hoping for a better result is not enough.

Phones enable a level of socialisation, both positive and negative, on a scale that people who finished school as recently as five years ago will not understand. My child is a product of the covid-taught secondary schoolers and has very complex relationships with communication technology.

It is not about the phones in school. It is about games, apps, social media, media, influencing, content creation, filters, pr0n, spam, bots, AI, news. Those same platforms and tools are used to bully, shame, abuse, and stalk. Whatsapp 'in' groups allow social inclusion and exclusion at a pace that would never have happened at the same rate as before. You can be in and out of a group in seconds. You can feel the pressure to have to 'engage' at 2am. The phones are the problem, but switching them off while at school will make no difference.

By all means, let those schools trial it and give us the data. Adjust the results levels of family income, ethnic background, previous mental-health issues. I doubt we will see a drop in cases of teenage depression, self-harm, and suicide.

The UK (and many other education systems) have a pattern of 'parental blame'. For many educators, if a child kicks off at school it is not because they are being bullied, but because their parents expose them to domestic violence. 'Phones off at school' makes all the phone-related problems the parents' fault. Forgetting, of course, that the phone is just a device that connects children to their school peers.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#143
post #36

The cool / mischevious kids will still bring phones to school, while life of the calm kids will be made miserable. Story old as time. Fascinating that people here cant predict it.

This is like someone suggesting murder should be illegal, and the main argument being “but some people will still do it anyway”.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#144
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't banning smartphones rather an example of overprotective parenting?

Where is the boundary between appropriately protective parenting and overprotective parenting?

It’s a boundary set by childless internet commenters.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#145

From TFA: > The schools have agreed that if any phone is used by a pupil during the school day, it will be confiscated. In my experience as a parent, this is nothing new. Until last year one of my children went to a very large secondary school in the UK (not in London though). The above was the rule for all of the seven years they were at the school: if you kept your phone out of sight and set to dnd then you were ok…

Yeah, same for me. I think my sons primary school had a policy of no phones, but they also had a (and this I find more ridiculous) policy of kids being dropped off or picked up, so there was no argument of them needing it to get in touch with their parents. He joined an early intake at a secondary and there they had to keep it out of sight. His subsequent schools have required them to be in lockers or out of sight on school grounds or not brought to school at all. He's been to more schools than I wish he'd needed to, and at 15 he's never been to a school (in London) where he was allowed to bring phones out other than with permission (e.g. asking a teacher for permission to call a parent, or if specific tasks were set - rarely - during lessons).

As I said in another comment, I'm more surprised Southwark had this many schools without restrictions, unless this has been exaggerated and many of them already had restrictions anyway and so no reason not to sign up to this...

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#146

I think many of the comments in opposition to this are coming from people that do not have children. Many of those in support do. I speak as a parent of a child, and I think “parent brain” will affect your thoughts on this. Having said that, I grew up on dial up and very low tech HTML. Not social media which is an entirely different beast. There is a book called The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Child…

Isn't banning smartphones rather an example of overprotective parenting?

IMO the problem with that argument is similar to the problem with arguing stopping the kids from touching a whirling sawblade is overprotective - you can let them learn that way, but there is a nontrivial chance they will suffer extreme lasting harm before learning their mistake, so the calculus becomes avoiding the cases where the probability of irrevocable harm is significant.

I'm all in favor of letting kids make mistakes rather than trying to stop them from doing everything, and that past a certain point, your attempts to filter what they consume are doomed in most environments.

But to the best of my ability to judge, not exposing children to unfiltered 0-friction instant gratification for some number of years is going to be somewhat practically necessary to allow them to develop enough experience with longer-term reward seeking to make such decisions based on actual information about the rewards versus just picking the easy button every time.

Otherwise, we've all seen the portrayals for many centuries before cell phones of what happens when you have people who have never had to do long-term planning for significant rewards, and are bored of the lack of texture in just taking the easy hit every time. Cell phones have just commoditized failing the marshmellow experiment.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#147

I think many of the comments in opposition to this are coming from people that do not have children. Many of those in support do. I speak as a parent of a child, and I think “parent brain” will affect your thoughts on this. Having said that, I grew up on dial up and very low tech HTML. Not social media which is an entirely different beast. There is a book called The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Child…

At least you have a choice. Other parents have little choice but to send their kids to the same school as everyone else in the neighbourhood. London-based academies are not going to be as exclusive as independent (private) schools.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but why? if im a teacher getting wind of cyberbullying, or a photo being shared, what should i do? call the police every time? im telling you, the police will not like that policy any more than the students. you're in a school. you don't have the right to do whatever you please.

I agree that teachers should be able to enforce discipline in schools. With that said, I've got no idea what schools should do about things like sexting. If I was a teacher and I confiscated a phone which might have illegal photos of underage students on it, I wouldn't want to turn a blind eye to that. But I also sure as hell wouldn't want to search it myself. I'd want that done by someone of unimpeachable character.

One of my sons schools had a case where someone was suspected, and from my understanding the school spoke to the police about it, and given the lack of any concrete evidence against one specific they, opted to send out a school-wide e-mail encouraging parents to talk to their kids and check their phone instead. Not a funny e-mail to get but frankly I'd rather that than find a random teacher had been tasked with it on the basis of suspicion that someone in school had been spreading something.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's incredibly common, like a quick text from the child "hey don't pick me up today I'm going to Greg's house" or a parent saying "do you have football practice today"

How did people ever survive school 20 years without such an ability? There is an easy solution that could be implemented. Kids can go to the office during lunch or a break and request their phone. They can send their message and then give back their phone.

20 years ago the chance that someone could steal or abuse a child on or from the way to school was way much higher. People have already started forgetting about it. No phone = no way to track back the criminal or the crime.

Re: Group of 17 London secondary schools join up to go smartphone-free

#150

I think many of the comments in opposition to this are coming from people that do not have children. Many of those in support do. I speak as a parent of a child, and I think “parent brain” will affect your thoughts on this. Having said that, I grew up on dial up and very low tech HTML. Not social media which is an entirely different beast. There is a book called The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Child…

At least you have a choice. Other parents have little choice but to send their kids to the same school as everyone else in the neighbourhood. London-based academies are not going to be as exclusive as independent (private) schools.

I’m grateful I have that choice to send her to a Waldorf school and I want more parents to have more options.
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