141–150 of 267 posts
> Spirit added that “more than 1,000 tests have been completed to confirm the mechanical and metallurgical properties of the affected material to ensure continued airworthiness.” So basically, has nothing to do with safety? Is this simply Uncle Sam is mad he couldn't take a dip of the proceeds?
The headline is spun. The text of the article doesn't allege "counterfeit titanium", only that the paperwork chain contains (according I guess to an audit done internally at Spirit) counterfeit documents . What that says about the metal itself is unknown. It seems more likely to me to be legitimate but stolen titanium than it does to be fake material. It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. Nothi…
No one is trying to pass aluminum or steel as titanium.
It's pretty straightforward to pass one titanium alloy as another, or claim provenance or material properties it doesn't have. I have two indistinguishable scrap pieces on my desk right now, one Grade 5 and one Grade 2. It's also possible to pass a billet or sheet of alloy with defects or poor quality control, voids, or inclusions. "Titanium" is a broad class of materials that are indistinguishable without exotic tools like XRF guns, or, in this case, a well documented and trusted supply chain.
Alloy substitutions and similar fraud happen all the time. It can even be the same alloy but have issues in post treatment and not meet spec. Here's a case where a NASA supplier was committing this fraud for over 20 years. It included fraudulent documentation, but the material itself was not up to spec:
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-supplier-was-delivering-fault...
The FAA has their hands full investigating problems _after_ they become problems. Are airplanes in a race to the bottom or is there an opportunity to inject quality and reliability into this industry?
> FAA has their hands full investigating problems _after_ they become problems The FAA is constantly auditing, certifying and testing airmen, airplanes and plants. They have their hands full. But it's totally incorrect to say they're an ex post facto investigations agency.
The headline is spun. The text of the article doesn't allege "counterfeit titanium", only that the paperwork chain contains (according I guess to an audit done internally at Spirit) counterfeit documents . What that says about the metal itself is unknown. It seems more likely to me to be legitimate but stolen titanium than it does to be fake material. It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. Nothi…
>It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. No one is trying to pass aluminum or steel as titanium. It's pretty straightforward to pass one titanium alloy as another, or claim provenance or material properties it doesn't have. I have two indistinguishable scrap pieces on my desk right now, one Grade 5 and one Grade 2. It's also possible to pass a billet or sheet of alloy with defects or poor quality…
Sure, but per my actual point: characterizing the wrong alloy as "counterfeit titanium" is misleading, no? If I hand you a nickel when you expected a quarter, did I give you "counterfeit money"? No, I gave you the wrong thing.
Cheating on material provenance is fraud. It's not "counterfeiting", and for a journalist to claim so is misleading spin. A counterfeit is something deliberately constructed in imitation of something else, it's not just a low grade substitute.
The headline is spun. The text of the article doesn't allege "counterfeit titanium", only that the paperwork chain contains (according I guess to an audit done internally at Spirit) counterfeit documents . What that says about the metal itself is unknown. It seems more likely to me to be legitimate but stolen titanium than it does to be fake material. It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. Nothi…
The reason they found it is because it had suspicious physical properties.
How the fuck do you counterfeit titanium it’s one of those things that is either or it’s not.
Side note: some things never change. Here's an ancient tablet, From someone complaining about the quality of copper they were sold.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-n%C4%...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason they found it is because it had suspicious physical properties.
Not per the linked article. In fact Spirit goes so far as to claim they've done extensive testing to prove the material's airworthiness, which is pretty much a straight refutation. Are you reading from somewhere else?
The headline is spun. The text of the article doesn't allege "counterfeit titanium", only that the paperwork chain contains (according I guess to an audit done internally at Spirit) counterfeit documents . What that says about the metal itself is unknown. It seems more likely to me to be legitimate but stolen titanium than it does to be fake material. It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. Nothi…
Yes, this is clearly the case. The phrase "counterfeit titanium" doesn't even make sense, because something counterfeit has the wrong provenance, and the provenance of an alloy or element isn't a meaningful property. You could say "counterfeit Krugerrands", but "counterfeit gold" doesn't make sense. Now, it could be ersatz titanium, except that the article specifically says that it isn't: > Spirit added that “more th…
Russia is what, third on the list of countries by titanium production? [0] Japan produces more. China produces quite a lot more. It should not be -that- hard to avoid using Russian titanium.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_production_by_country
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The mining of these ores isn't primarily in Russia: https://www.statista.com/statistics/759972/mine-production-t...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. No one is trying to pass aluminum or steel as titanium. It's pretty straightforward to pass one titanium alloy as another, or claim provenance or material properties it doesn't have. I have two indistinguishable scrap pieces on my desk right now, one Grade 5 and one Grade 2. It's also possible to pass a billet or sheet of alloy with defects or poor quality…
> It's pretty straightforward to pass one titanium alloy as another, Sure, but per my actual point: characterizing the wrong alloy as "counterfeit titanium" is misleading, no? If I hand you a nickel when you expected a quarter, did I give you "counterfeit money"? No, I gave you the wrong thing. Cheating on material provenance is fraud. It's not "counterfeiting", and for a journalist to claim so is misleading spin. A…
But what if the lower grade substitute was specifically produced with the goal in mind of passing it off as this other kind?