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Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

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Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#141

Post by Rinzler89 »

flerchin wrote: post #137
crazygringo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to be a hot take here, but honestly I'm not that concerned about e-waste, in the grand scheme of things. What about cars, air conditioners, dishwashers, fridges, furniture, clothing? What about when we throw all of those out? The amount of e-waste I've gotten rid of over my life is miniscule both in terms of weight and volume in comparison to the things I've listed. I think we confuse environmental impa…

Over the past 10 years I've recycled all of my large appliances. My (texas) city comes and picks them up at no charge, and I don't feel that's an unusual situation.

>My (texas) city comes and picks them up at no charge, and I don't feel that's an unusual situation.

That IS pretty unusual, and in a positive way.

I live in one of EU's richest socialist countries (Austria) and here YOU have bare the cost of transporting your old fridge or washing machine to the city's recycling depot, which is a huge expense for your average joe as that means owning or renting a car plus renting a trailer plus having a gym-bro with a strong back and equipment to lift the damn thing from your place and carry it downstairs (many older buildings don't have elevators). And once you get to the recycling center on your own dime, you have to pay 6 Euros on top if you're a resident of the city, or 33 Euros if not.

Your only "free" workaround is buying a new fridge or washing machine from a retailer who also has a promo on picking up your old one for free with the delivery of the replacement.

So many people just dump them in the basement of the apartment building or on the side of the road. #environment #green But hey, at least we've banned nuclear energy in the constitution because it's bad for the environment.

Isn't it ironic where one of US's most conservative states with low taxes, does things better than one of EU's most socialist "green" states where taxes are through the roof?

I think it's similar in other EU countries like the Netherlands.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#142

Post by goodluckchuck »

crazygringo wrote: post #121
throwaway48476 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Differences of interpretation effectively are making up precedent. Circuit splits exist because of this.

That's what I said -- "whenever laws are vague". And it's not "effectively" -- that's a major part of what precedent is .

Most (good) laws did not originate from statute. Laws against murder originated in the courts (in the common law tradition). Torts originated in the courts. The claim of Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress was invented / discovered within the past 50-or-so years. You’re fundamentally backwards on the assumption that laws generally originate from statutes. The most important, cornerstone laws of western society were merely “codified” in recent years as an attempt to undermine the judiciary… which under prevailing jurisprudence means they are mostly nullities.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#143

Post by tra3 »

jonah wrote: post #120
tra3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been trying to buy one for months. Glad I didn’t. I was going to use it for the same purpose as you. I just love that knob. Wonder if I there’s something open source out there.

I missed buying one for $30 when they were clearing them out a while ago and recently decided I wanted one for my car so started looking on eBay - they're going for at or more than the full, original price! Maybe with this EOL announcement, the prices will drop and I can pick one up cheap to repurpose for something else.

well I was going to use it for Spotify, but without official support it's going to be a pain. Unless someone's already hacked it.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#144

Post by bravetraveler »

autoexec wrote: post #133
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not go even farther than that? Admit political knowledge is virtually impossible, and just stop engaging in the political process at all. Save your time and energy for something easier, like cutting edge theoretical physics or becoming a billionaire. Such is the point argued by Dr. Mike Huemer in his essay In Praise of Passivity [1], and to this date I've never found a clearer piece of writing on the matter. [1]:…

If I wanted to cede control to unelected CEOs and unaccountable corporations I'd go around telling people not to exercise the power they have to influence politics too, because I'd know damn well that powerful corporations and industry groups aren't going to "stop engaging in the political process". They'll stay very busy spending huge amounts of time and money bribing politicians, writing legislation for them, and m…

Yea - I'm not advocating to stop participation entirely; just with the hacks/opportunists.

We are so incredibly beyond the government serving the people. They don't reside in the same plane of existence.

The average DC rep would be shocked to live like I did, the average person.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#145

Post by dylan604 »

xp84 wrote: post #130
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Car Thing for my 2015 Chevy Volt, and I really enjoyed it. For exactly the reasons you mention, it lets me control Spotify with a great UI. I can also just play my phone over Bluetooth but it's not like I can select different playlists, browse songs, etc. from my car's dashboard - all I can do is go back or forward. I'm also surprised they're bricking Car Thing. Given how it works, I didn't realize it would…

Seriously. I don't know anything about mobile development, but once it's working in the first place, how hard is it to just NOT delete its API hooks from the codebase. As a developer, I can only guess that maybe the code which supports it, or the code where it has to poke its fingers into into in order to be able to draw its UI, is poorly-architected and removing the Car Thing code across the board will allow them to…

My guess was that it was sending back analytics which was developed in such a way that if the servers are not responsive, the thing won't work. So if they unplugged the servers, then no more working Car Things. However, I wouldn't not consider that being bricked. So maybe they plan on pushing on OTA firmware update to brick them???

What would happen if you just stored the unit so that it was not able to receive OTA updates? How long would they keep the OTA update server up and running before assuming all units were bricked and could retire that server? Does part of the bricking process collect the serial number to add to a completed list that your rogue unit would not show updated?

Just curious how far one needs to go to avoid it getting bricked if it would be possible to avoid at all

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#146

Post by kuschku »

djc6 wrote: post #3

I reached out to them to get a refund for my Car Thing - and they actually sent me an email asking for my checking account number and routing number to be sent to them VIA EMAIL. And presumably into their ticket system where future hackers will find a nice collection of financial info. I wonder if their CISO or security team is aware of this, I reached out to address found in https://www.spotify.com/.well-known/secur…

> they actually sent me an email asking for my checking account number and routing number to be sent to them VIA EMAIL

Is that an actual issue with US accounts? Over in EU it's common to publish your account number (IBAN) and routing code (BIC) on your website, letterhead, and obviously on bills you send to customers so they can pay you.

They should only be able to send you money, not use it to request money, right?

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#147

Post by goodluckchuck »

teeray wrote: post #57
goodluckchuck wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t need more laws. We need to repeal the arbitration act, and let things like this get resolved in court, where we can establish a precedent against this kind of stuff.

Yeah, but it is so much work to litigate and it takes so much time, even for small claims. We can’t really expect a reasonable fraction of the owners of these devices to sue Spotify, then maintain the wherewithal to bring that suit to a judgement, then actually collect on it. The other legal mechanism, class actions, often just enrich the lawyers litigating them.

I would tend to disagree about civil litigation being that much work, because it takes far less effort than other approaches when measured by effectiveness. I’ve had situations where I’ve reported crimes to the authorities. Most of the time these reports go ignored. In one major instance they refused to even take a police report. I’ve put cases together will all the evidence needed for a conviction, and only once did they actually arrest the person (and even then adjudication was withheld). So yeah, leaving it up to the government is less work, but there’s a good chance nothing will happen (particularly if they’re not politically aligned on the issue / it would offend donors / etc.). Then when there is a “major” enforcement, it’s usually a slap on the wrist and no the victims get less than they would have from a class action.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#148

Post by hamandcheese »

kuschku wrote: post #146
djc6 wrote: post #3

I reached out to them to get a refund for my Car Thing - and they actually sent me an email asking for my checking account number and routing number to be sent to them VIA EMAIL. And presumably into their ticket system where future hackers will find a nice collection of financial info. I wonder if their CISO or security team is aware of this, I reached out to address found in https://www.spotify.com/.well-known/secur…

> they actually sent me an email asking for my checking account number and routing number to be sent to them VIA EMAIL Is that an actual issue with US accounts? Over in EU it's common to publish your account number (IBAN) and routing code (BIC) on your website, letterhead, and obviously on bills you send to customers so they can pay you. They should only be able to send you money, not use it to request money, right?

Nope. My utility company and also Verizon withdraw from my checking account, and all they needed was the account number, routing number, and my name. No further verification.

For that reason, I have two checking accounts, and don't keep large sums of money in the account I use for payments.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#149

Post by tzs »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #141
flerchin wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past 10 years I've recycled all of my large appliances. My (texas) city comes and picks them up at no charge, and I don't feel that's an unusual situation.

>My (texas) city comes and picks them up at no charge, and I don't feel that's an unusual situation. That IS pretty unusual, and in a positive way. I live in one of EU's richest socialist countries (Austria) and here YOU have bare the cost of transporting your old fridge or washing machine to the city's recycling depot, which is a huge expense for your average joe as that means owning or renting a car plus renting a…

I'd have thought that most people getting rid of a an old fridge or washing machine are replacing it with a new fridge or washing machine.

The same vehicle and trailer and gym-bro that is bringing the new machine can then be used to haul away the old one.

That's how it typically works in the US. The appliance dealer offers delivery and for an extra charge will haul away the old unit.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#150

Post by strunz »

elaus wrote: post #38
throwaway48476 wrote: post #32

If every customer is entitled to a refund then why isn't it automatic and automated? There needs to be a term for this kind of malicious refund policy that does everything possible to prevent you from claiming it.

The account in another comments makes it clear why it's done like that: To get a refund you not only have to talk to support (i.e. spending quite some time in some chat interface), then escalate the issue (talking to another support agent once more) and THEN you might get your money. I guess only a very small fraction of people will do this, making it a very cheap way for Spotify to stop any negative press regarding…

I didn't have to escalate anything, just provided my receipt
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