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Priced out of home ownership

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Re: Priced out of home ownership

#141
post #139

Why doesn't the government build and sell housing at a small profit? Here in Dubai, the largest housing construction companies are or were government owned. It's one of the ways the government can have zero income tax despite oil being less than 1% of its economy. My only thought is that it's political, and some voters don't want their houses to lose value.

Because of neoliberal policies. Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing before neoliberalism took hold; for example the Swedish Million Programme [0] built 1 million dwellings between 1965-1974 where the government took the risk on 66% of the building costs to be repaid by tenants over 30 years. This system of building houses was completely scrapped by ne…

> Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing

I am not referring to building public housing. I am saying the government should build housing as if it were a for-profit company. Take those profits, and re-invest into building even _more_ housing. Don't try to sell to those in need, sell to those who are speculating on real estate and increase supply at the same time.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#142

I live in Portugal and here the situation is outright ridiculous. 1. There are a ridiculous amount of abandoned properties, when I walk the streets of major cities, sometimes more than half of the buildings even in expensive areas are boarded-up. 2. Meanwhile I am afraid of being homeless soon, I lost my job recently, and the unemployment benefit I can receive is literally half of my rent. Thing is, there is no "wors…

I would expect that kind of situation to lead to a lot of squatting, how common is that in Portugal?

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#143
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of neoliberal policies. Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing before neoliberalism took hold; for example the Swedish Million Programme [0] built 1 million dwellings between 1965-1974 where the government took the risk on 66% of the building costs to be repaid by tenants over 30 years. This system of building houses was completely scrapped by ne…

> Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing I am not referring to building public housing. I am saying the government should build housing as if it were a for-profit company. Take those profits, and re-invest into building even _more_ housing. Don't try to sell to those in need, sell to those who are speculating on real estate and increase supply at the sam…

In the US no one trusts the government anymore and instead they want the private sector to do everything. But the private sector only cares about profit.

It’s also a good way to ensure companies can milk the government of money and then the head of those companies can lobby the government to keep things how they are so they continue to get that government money.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#144
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing I am not referring to building public housing. I am saying the government should build housing as if it were a for-profit company. Take those profits, and re-invest into building even _more_ housing. Don't try to sell to those in need, sell to those who are speculating on real estate and increase supply at the sam…

In the US no one trusts the government anymore and instead they want the private sector to do everything. But the private sector only cares about profit. It’s also a good way to ensure companies can milk the government of money and then the head of those companies can lobby the government to keep things how they are so they continue to get that government money.

I believe the main issue with many US government projects is that they _don't_ care about profit. If they did, maybe we could have public transportation as good as that of Hong Kong[0]. This idea that pursuing profits as a public entity is not productive when it could benefit society as a whole does more harm than good.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELy9fOX8vtc

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#145
Some other less-cited reasons home ownership may increasingly be considered expensive:

- Increasing density in older cities requires infrastructure upgrades that are much more complex and expensive to retrofit than it was to plan and build the first time when space was abundant.

- Multi-story buildings are more expensive per floor space area than single-story buildings. As cities become denser, the added expense of multi-story buildings is realised.

- Home standards have dramatically increased. We've forgotten how common it used to be for houses to leak during storms, or how hot or cold houses used to be without any insulation or HVAC systems. We've forgotten flash floods caused by inadequate stormwater systems. Where children used to grow up in bunk beds in tiny shared bedrooms, they now are expected to have their own adult-sized room. Where a small kitchen used to suffice, people now expect a huge show kitchen and butlers pantry that is double the size of old smaller kitchens. Or in a country such as China, millions of people have forgotten what living in a cave house was like for their grandparents.

- Complexity of expected amenities and public services have dramatically increased, resulting in people wanting to live inside large cities rather than spread out across small towns. People want to live within an hour of travel to a MRI machine and healthcare specialists. Or instead of shopping at one food store or dining out in one of two restaurants in a small town, people want to be within a few minutes of 20 choices of cuisine in a large city.

- Materials are more expensive because it has been realised that clear-felling old growth forest is not sustainable, nor is digging up the easiest to extract resources, and we're just starting to realise how expensive sustainable resource extraction actually is. As a result of increased quality of housing and infrastructure, materials are enormously more complex and varied.

- Safety standards for construction labour are significantly improved, even if just by worker and public expectation. It's no longer acceptable for labourers to be working in dusty environments or working at heights without scaffolding and harnesses having been planned and setup first.

- Increasingly affluent populations are aging and naturally reducing in size. In such a demographic shift, workers can prefer safer and easier jobs that don't risk life-long back and joint injuries and all the other types of health risks common to the construction industry.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#146
post #129

In a lot of ways this is a problem creating itself. The reason Home Ownership is desirable is that the pricing of houses go up faster then both inflation and depreciation caused by wear decreases the utility value of a dwelling, and the reason that houses are expensive is that the state actors are invested enough in this cycle to make sure it never really breaks. In a real functional market there would be no real ben…

You talk about demand for home ownership as if it is entirely induced via economics rather than inherently valuable. I don’t understand why? There are reasons why home ownership is desirable neglecting economics entirely. Owning a home gives you more control over the space you live in, in terms of the ability to customize the space.

That's again a false argument, made a complete lie by the existence of Home Ownership associations and other contract covenants.

Rights come from your contract with whoever hold power not "property ownership"

There is yes some cases where owning is giving you a better deal then leasing in terms of rights and obligations but this is not an universal truth and not the reason house prices consistently rises faster then inflation and average disposable incomes that have nothing to do with the utility value of property as an dwelling.

Ie if we were to go back to an scenario where home properties lost value as the loans were paid off and things got old and worn there would be no crisis, the issue is that the way that currency and banking intersect makes prices keep rising.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of neoliberal policies. Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing before neoliberalism took hold; for example the Swedish Million Programme [0] built 1 million dwellings between 1965-1974 where the government took the risk on 66% of the building costs to be repaid by tenants over 30 years. This system of building houses was completely scrapped by ne…

> Some governments around the world did incentivise and even footed the bill for building public housing I am not referring to building public housing. I am saying the government should build housing as if it were a for-profit company. Take those profits, and re-invest into building even _more_ housing. Don't try to sell to those in need, sell to those who are speculating on real estate and increase supply at the sam…

Telling voters that their tax money will be used to build housing to be sold to speculators will absolutely not work. Even if in the long-term that somehow could end up helping people, no one will vote for this absurdity.

You're asking for people to fund the infrastructure speculators thrive on with their money, on top of that you want to depress housing prices which another large cohort of society will vote against, politically your proposal doesn't make sense.

If you cared to read the Wikipedia entry I shared the approach the Swedish government took was to pay 2/3 of the new constructions and sell those houses to people who would pay them back in 30 years, it's not "public housing" as you assumed...

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#149
I am not an economist but if we would treat house ownership something that is beneficial for the whole society (less traffic from commuters, less homeless etc) and remove the speculations/foreign investments around housing?

Why not apply the following: - every house not used for primary living place is highly taxed (removing all speculative ownership) - charge foreign investors heavily (australia will do this soon) - tax reduction for renting places for lower than median per square meter price - incentivising affordable homes

Just trying to understand why this wouldn’t work?

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#150

Society in UK, USA, AUS,Canada has been destroyed by housing as a financial instrument instead of……. housing. And politicians love every dollar of price increase. There’s the homeowners and the renters/serfs and nothing in between. Dead society, nothing to aim for or live for.

Politicians love every dollar? Regular people own the overwhelming majority of homes, and they love every dollar of increase. The finger pointing at corporations or politicians is totally misguided. It's the locals who collectively are invested in their homes and collectively (through the votes they cast) create the disastrous situation we are in. Even the most bleeding heart liberal is all about "protecting the char…

> Even the most bleeding heart liberal is all about "protecting the character of our neighborhood". Just look at San Francisco.

I love those green and saffron signs about welcoming refugees that they put in the neighborhoods where you can't touch property for under $2M. I want stickers I can slap on those signs that say "...if you can afford this neighborhood, lol."

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