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Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

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Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#141

Post by nrp »

People have commented on the rest, but on “Also, job posting and application management platforms are usually quiet expensive”, I haven’t found that to be the case. For small startups, ATS (applicant tracking software) is pretty inexpensive and usually includes integrations with LinkedIn to post jobs automatically. Given the time it saves on the process parts of the candidate pipeline, it’s easily worth it.

If you are the founder of an early stage startup, you should also take it upon yourself to do candidate sourcing. Nobody knows your space and the gaps you need to fill in your company better than you do. Get a LinkedIn Recruiter Lite account and cold message people who have the skillset you are looking for.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#142

Post by unshavedyak »

surajrmal wrote: post #56
tlb wrote: post #8

It's not any kind of paradox. Structural unemployment happens when the skills of the work force don't match the needs of employers, so there is both unemployment and difficulty hiring. Structural unemployment is usually high when there's a rapid change in demand for skills, as of course there is in tech. It results in crazy high salaries too. People with machine learning experience are getting 7-figure offers, while…

It's also not helpful when employers refuse to train and demand folks with the skills they want. If the supply of folks you want doesn't't exist, you need to do your part to grow them.

Yea this is my biggest issue. I make a point of pushing for hiring green devs in our company. A balance of green and senior. My argument to management is that we’re never hiring people for what they know, we’re hiring people to learn our problems and figure new ways to solve them.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#143

Post by lapcat »

dukeyukey wrote: post #128
lapcat wrote: post #38

> If you're too specific about the position, you get too few quality candidates. What do you mean by too few? I'd say that zero is too few, but one quality candidate might be perfect, because then the hiring process can go very fast. There's no reason why you couldn't or shouldn't hire the first quality person you find. In my opinion, the biggest problems with job postings are: 1) No salary/compensation listed, which…

Out of those quality candidates that apply: Some will find a job before they finish you interview process. Some will change their mind. Some will have a change on personal circumstances. Some (many?) will ask for more than you can offer. To hire one good person, you usually need many to apply.

> Some will find a job before they finish you interview process.

"one quality candidate might be perfect, because then the hiring process can go very fast"

> Some (many?) will ask for more than you can offer.

This seems to ignore my point 1 about listing salary/compensation on the job posting.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#144

Post by sarchertech »

dukeyukey wrote: post #128
lapcat wrote: post #38

> If you're too specific about the position, you get too few quality candidates. What do you mean by too few? I'd say that zero is too few, but one quality candidate might be perfect, because then the hiring process can go very fast. There's no reason why you couldn't or shouldn't hire the first quality person you find. In my opinion, the biggest problems with job postings are: 1) No salary/compensation listed, which…

Out of those quality candidates that apply: Some will find a job before they finish you interview process. Some will change their mind. Some will have a change on personal circumstances. Some (many?) will ask for more than you can offer. To hire one good person, you usually need many to apply.

> Some will find a job before they finish you interview process.

The more this happens the greater the chances your interview process is too long.

A fast interview process has many many benefits.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#145

Post by sroussey »

b20000 wrote: post #113

As an employer you can hire people who have past projects they delivered and who can show you code they wrote and talk you through it. You can hire them and fire quickly if they don't work out. Leetcode is useless and experienced people will not waste time with coding interviews. These type of coding interviews ask stupid "trick questions" which have no relationship to day to day software development and attract fres…

And thus I have never applied to Google. I’m fine with Google shipping my code though…

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#146

Post by giantg2 »

csa wrote: post #110
giantg2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You have to be lucky (including knowing someone, ie networking), not necessarily good." Yes, and the network effects are largely detrimental to minority groups since networks tend to be biased toward similar people.

> the network effects are largely detrimental to minority groups “… detrimental to low socioeconomic status groups, within which minorities are over-represented”. FTFY, not to be a pedant, but to highlight the fact that many white people from certain backgrounds also struggle with this, while well-connected minorities largely do not. In fact, connected minorities essentially have super-powered network effects since t…

I'm not just talking about population level racial minorities. It can be things like disabilities, or even white people in areas/industries/ teams with a majority Asian population. It could even be somewhat based on political or religious beliefs and the other cultural-social background that forms what hobbies and other activities you might meet someone at.

Yeah, certain minorities can benefit from programs that value them above others, but the above and beyond results you talk about come after the main connections are made. This doesn't extend to all minority groups either, like those with invisible disabilities (after all, it's mostly about how things look).

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#147

Post by jeltz »

ativzzz wrote: post #118
rafamvc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd risk say the dating market is even more broken *because* of tinder.

It just changes the game so that people who learn to play it win even more because most people never bother learning. For dating (tinder especially), good photos are important. Many people, and men especially, do not have good photos of them. None of my male friends even take photos, and if they do, they are not flattering or of them wearing nice clothes that make them look attractive. Nor would some of them be attra…

After looking at Tinder both from men's and women's I would say women pit even less effort into photos than men do. But maybe this varies by country. No, I don't want another gym photo of you standing in an awkward pose.

And, yeah, I'd like to think I am at least decent at both games if only because I realize they are games.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#148

Post by belter »

> There are million companies and million posts. (especially with remote positions). LinkedIn is the platform that you can find more coverage yes however it doesn't usually represent the reality about the job/market

Not really. I would refer you to these very interesting metrics, that even the Fed uses to gauge the economy and jobs:

Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in the United States: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE

Software Development Job Postings on Indeed in Canada: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXCATPSOFTDEVE

Germany: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXDETPSOFTDEVE

UK: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXGBTPSOFTDEVE

France: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXFRTPSOFTDEVE

We are in a slowdown and a serious one.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#149

Post by joshstrange »

Full disclosure: I got hired via a "Who wants to be hired" and I have hired people using both "Who wants to be hired" and "Who is hiring" so I'm a little biased.

> The best method that works as per my opinion is working with an agency

Dear god no. I'm convinced that nearly all agencies and nearly all recruiters are completely incompetent based on candidates they have sent companies I've worked for and my own personal experience with recruiters. In addition, the quality of applicant coming from HN has been higher than the slew of candidates from a LinkedIn or similar IMHO.

> My view as job seeker: There are million companies and million posts

There are 1000 or fewer posts in this month's Who Is Hiring [0] and keyword filtering will narrow that list down substantially. Yes, this is not representative of the overall job market but there are a number of good companies in that post and I've seen a couple HN posts recently talking about hiring (that weren't throwaways, like OP's account here) but I also couldn't find any posts from those accounts in "Who wants to be hired", and I have all the data local going back to the first post which I can easily search through. I'm not saying "You didn't post/search on HN so clearly you aren't trying" but I do find it interesting to find people complaining on HN while not using a resource that is posted monthly. Also, spoiler, you can look at more than just the current month's post.

HN is the solution for myself (for being hired and hiring), it's worked on both sides for me and I'm surprised more people don't use it. Every other service I've seen costs an arm and a leg just to flood you with candidates/jobs that barely match what you want.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40224213

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